help with my guitars!

[deathtotaliban]

ok, so im recording my band in my studio right now and we dont have much time to wrap up this ep. the drums sound tight but i cant get the guitars where i want them to be. we reamped them so the playing is tight and we have 6 tracks on each side worth of guitars to choose from. i mic'd with sm57s one on axis right in front of the dusk cap and on off axis a few inches away from the cap. i cant them punching as much as the drums are. anyway ive just tried some eq and C4 but its just not there yet. I was hoping to get some pointers. here is a "rough" mix of one of the track, just bass guitars and drums right now and the drums are like 70% mixed, this is actually a day or two old export so on the new ones the kick drum has more low end rolled off so it isnt so thumpy and there is some buss compression and the psp vintage warmer on the drums. im really just looking for some direction here, thanks for anything!!!

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=626995A61DDF9503

 

[deathtotaliban]

pplease i really need some feedback/ bump

 

[AStacy2]

Hey, I usually don't do too much eq/compression wise to my guitars, but I usually filter off anything below like 60hz and above 12k and sometimes a very little eq here and there depending. So maybe the problem is from the cab/amp you're using. I usually mic direct on axis about a inch from the grill cloth with a SM57 maybe a little off the center of the cone to get rid of some fizz. I think the results are usually pretty good, but not great yet. I think from the mix your guitars might lack a little bit of gain/bass and I think they should be louder in the mix too. What was the cab and head unit you used and what were the setting on the amp? What guitar? Plus you could try using a Tubescreamer as a clean boost to you amp to give you a little more gain and a punchier bass. Pretty much the same advice a lot of people on this forum give so you probably already did this, but if not maybe it'll help.

The song was pretty tight though, I dug it a lot.

 

[AStacy2]

Also, I wouldn't use all 6 tracks on each side I think that's too many. I know a lot of people quad track guitars but I usually only double track. If you pan them like Guitar 1 - 100% left and 80% left and Guitar 2 - 100% right and 80% right with the best 2 takes of each guitar I think that'd be fine and maybe give you more of the thrashy punch you're looking for.

Hope any of this helps!

 

[JBroll]

I haven't found any use for more than four per side myself; two per side is almost always enough, if you really need it (like for harmony parts or when you want to double low-string thumps) go to three or four. Also, there's either too little bass going out or not enough 'pounding' going on with the actual performance - hit those fucking wires HARD, and if that doesn't help or you knock them out of tune, you may get a less fizz-more balls sound with bigger strings so if that's a possibility go for it. As far as 'punch', you might try (as every other post on the forum says) using a TS as a boost, which will also cut the bass distortion while we're at it, and then readjusting bass as necessary; you'll get a tighter sound and you'll be able to use more bass after the clipping stage of your amp, so you're getting the best of both worlds. Finally, using (not overusing) a peak limiter will let you place the guitars higher in the mix without drowning out other things or getting digital distortion - which is bad, period, end of discussion. If I had all of the answers you'd see a forum named after me too, but I don't so that's about all I can offer - keep us up on the results of this goofing around and we'll see what else can come out.

Jeff

 

[Nebulous]

I'd say go a BIT harder with the C4, around another -2dB, and yeah, try dropping a track or two to get a bit more definition in the guitars. Also, get more highs into the tone, id say a high shelf round 2-3kHz. The guitars seem to have a nice bite at around 2kHz, try a dB or two of boost there too, using a medium Q.
I actually tried this over the stereo mix, and it seemed to clear everything up alot. The mix you posted was quite boxy. One of the great things i learnt here and through talking to people i know is that a nice high end will balance out your lowend and give it more punch.
Having said that, try mixing the guitars a TINY bit louder (especially if you drop a track per side), and give the bass a bit more presence in the mix, it'll definately help the guitars seem like they're "punching" through like the drums are.

Good luck man, the track sounds good, really enjoyed it.

Daniel

 

[deathtotaliban]

here is an updated mix taht im pretty happy with, but if there is anything blatently obvious that needs to be done let me know please, im just a noob!thanks so much for the help already!!

jordan

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=069A515235FED410

 

[AStacy2]

You said bass guitar was in the mix? I think it needs to be compressed more turned up a lot. On your final mix you have a big dip in the 76hz region which I think should be boosted up a lot... and everything below that which should be cut a lot. I think you can also get away with boosting the mid's and high-mids a little bit more as well, everything from like 350hz to like 5k.

If you turn up the bass it'll fix the dip in the bass region probably but then you'll probably have to use some eq to gradually cut everything off below that (I'd scan from like 35-45 and see where). You can use some eq on the final mix and try to pinpoint where the rumble gets cut off is what I usually do. The mid and high-mid problem is probably with the guitar so I'd boost those and see what happens. I think waves has some PAZ meters in the Diamond bundle you said you had so I'd load that up and make the changes while paying close attention to that and see what happens. Or even throw the reference track on that and look at how that eq compares to the eq on your track is a great idea too.

Also, the little solo's that each guitar plays seem a little fragile like they weren't doubled so maybe you could throw some delay on just that part and see if it helps them out.

Anyways these are just some ideas, you might not like how they sound so I could be totally wrong!

 

[deathtotaliban]

You said bass guitar was in the mix? I think it needs to be compressed more turned up a lot. On your final mix you have a big dip in the 76hz region which I think should be boosted up a lot... and everything below that which should be cut a lot. I think you can also get away with boosting the mid's and high-mids a little bit more as well, everything from like 350hz to like 5k.

If you turn up the bass it'll fix the dip in the bass region probably but then you'll probably have to use some eq to gradually cut everything off below that (I'd scan from like 35-45 and see where). You can use some eq on the final mix and try to pinpoint where the rumble gets cut off is what I usually do. The mid and high-mid problem is probably with the guitar so I'd boost those and see what happens. I think waves has some PAZ meters in the Diamond bundle you said you had so I'd load that up and make the changes while paying close attention to that and see what happens. Or even throw the reference track on that and look at how that eq compares to the eq on your track is a great idea too.

Also, the little solo's that each guitar plays seem a little fragile like they weren't doubled so maybe you could throw some delay on just that part and see if it helps them out.

Anyways these are just some ideas, you might not like how they sound so I could be totally wrong!

thank you for taking the time to listen i really appreciate it, ill get to trying those things this evening and see how it goes, thanks again man!

jordan

 

[Nebulous]

Nice work on th added highs there dude. The guitars realy growl now, though, is it just me or id the right guitar a bit louder? It just seems to overpower the left side to me...
I haven't run any visual analysis over the mix, but the low end seem like it still needs more taming (compression) on the guitars and bass, so like i said before, id go harder on it with the C4 to get that boxiness out of it. At that point you may have to reduce the highs on the guitars, since it might seem like overkill with the tamer lowend.