Hey guys, America sucks.

[Dead_Lioness]

You are aware that nobody here would ever refer to themselves as a Euro?

I think you've blurred the lines a little too much. In the same way that the sheer size of the United States makes it almost an amalgamation of different countries, the European continent is so culturally and historically diverse I frankly find it insulting to have everything bundled up and labelled "Euro".

As interesting as your comparison between the two is, and the invaluable experience you have living in both Europe and the U.S, I think you're still way off the mark.

I'm sure he knows the differences between the countries though... I didn't find it that *insulting*. True, every European country is different (COMPLETELY) but for a sake of an argument, when one compares the "USA" and "Europe" I think it's acceptable to say: "Europe" as a general place.

 

[derek]

Yep. I'd flat out punch someone if they spent the entire day calling me a "Euro".

 

[mReEtTaIlRsEkD]

I think you've blurred the lines a little too much. In the same way that the sheer size of the United States makes it almost an amalgamation of different countries, the European continent is so culturally and historically diverse I frankly find it insulting to have everything bundled up and labelled "Euro".

Silly human.

 

[derek]

I'm sure he knows the differences between the countries though... I didn't find it that *insulting*. True, every European country is different (COMPLETELY) but for a sake of an argument, when one compares the "USA" and "Europe" I think it's acceptable to say: "Europe" as a general place.

I'm not saying he doesn't know the differences between the countries. I'm only arguing that his understanding of how each considers the other is way off the mark.

You might have an insight into this Karen, but America installs a very unique mindset into its people. Even the smart ones still have such an American-centric worldview and it permeates how they interact and understand other places and themselves in those places. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a psychological phenomenon only other folks seem to notice.

 

[Lunar Still]

I'm not saying he doesn't know the differences between the countries. I'm only arguing that his understanding of how each considers the other is way off the mark.

You might have an insight into this Karen, but America installs a very unique mindset into its people. Even the smart ones still have such an American-centric worldview and it permeates how they interact and understand other places and themselves in those places. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a psychological phenomenon only other folks seem to notice.

The "American-centric" attitudes are very noticeable, and not just to people from outside the country. With the drastic changes in our country's collective psyche after 9/11, you'd have to be a fool not to notice how fiercely proud - sometimes to a fault - some people have become just because they're American. There seems to be this idea that everything you could ever want, ever, is in this country, so there's no point in going anywhere else for any reason. My father and I were discussing places we would like to go on vacation recently, and he was listing sites such as the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore, and the other usual American vacation spots... I said I'd like to go to another country, since I've never left here, and you should have seen the look of confusion that came over his face. It was like I said I wanted to go to the moon.

 

[derek]

The "American-centric" attitudes are very noticeable, and not just to people from outside the country. With the drastic changes in our country's collective psyche after 9/11, you'd have to be a fool not to notice how fiercely proud - sometimes to a fault - some people have become just because they're American. There seems to be this idea that everything you could ever want, ever, is in this country, so there's no point in going anywhere else for any reason. My father and I were discussing places we would like to go on vacation recently, and he was listing sites such as the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore, and the other usual American vacation spots... I said I'd like to go to another country, since I've never left here, and you should have seen the look of confusion that came over his face. It was like I said I wanted to go to the moon.

I don't think it is a specifically post 9/11 phenomenon, although the feelings are markedly more pointed now. The psyche of a people is a difficult thing to dissect at the best of times, with America's sheer size and diversity making it even more so.

Having met American's in America, here in Scotland and all over Continental Europe (Mexico, Brazil, Australia and Asia too, for that matter) it just strikes me how American-centric the world views are, even of those who are hardly Patriotic and die hard Red, White and Blue. That sort of centrality in the world view doesn't occur in Europe quite so much, because the continent is so divided socially, culturally and politically. To say "Europe" and register it as a homogeneous entity makes little sense to anyone here.

As an example, take the boarder who is currently in Germany. From what I can see he bases his opinions on other countries by comparing them with America. He sees America as the weaker in many respects, but the centrality of the world view is still apparent.

 

[neal]

As an example, take the boarder who is currently in Germany. From what I can see he bases his opinions on other countries by comparing them with America. He sees America as the weaker in many respects, but the centrality of the world view is still apparent.

so why is this strange? he's from america and growing up heard america is great, america is great, america is great over and over again. makes sense to me that the new places he goes are going to be compared to where he came from. when you go places you never compare them to scotland? or think "this is much better than how we do it at home!" or "this is much worse!" i mean, doesnt everyone do that?

i dont see how this is uniquely american, explain further, mister!

 

[derek]

When was the last time I made a thread about how much I loved Italy because it is better than Scotland?

 

[JBroll]

You might have an insight into this Karen, but America installs a very unique mindset into its people. Even the smart ones still have such an American-centric worldview and it permeates how they interact and understand other places and themselves in those places. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a psychological phenomenon only other folks seem to notice.

I don't think all Americans wind up in that position - there are plenty of us who are disillusioned enough to drop pride and Americentricism and study how the rest of the world works. I don't have a drop of collectivist blood in me, I don't watch the telly or listen to the radio, I don't bother with American news sources for events that occur outside the States (I'd rely on foreign news for American news, too, but the BBC doesn't often like covering our legislature too often), and my education consisted of telling teachers to leave me alone so I could go to the library and read a bloody book. On top of that, I literally had everything set on moving out of the country as soon as I could because I saw through the horseshit that we try to feed everyone who enters the country - of course, with all of the asshats who have to tell me that Europe is better at everything I'm not looking forward to it nearly as much, and with what I'll be working in I'm going to have more limited options now that I know what I'll be specializing in, but I'm fairly certain that someone can grow up in the States and not be an American.

Jeff

 

[neal]

i thought italy was awesome, but i didnt make a thread about it either. so what?

 

[derek]

I don't think all Americans wind up in that position - there are plenty of us who are disillusioned enough to drop pride and Americentricism and study how the rest of the world works. I don't have a drop of collectivist blood in me, I don't watch the telly or listen to the radio, I don't bother with American news sources for events that occur outside the States (I'd rely on foreign news for American news, too, but the BBC doesn't often like covering our legislature too often), and my education consisted of telling teachers to leave me alone so I could go to the library and read a bloody book. On top of that, I literally had everything set on moving out of the country as soon as I could because I saw through the horseshit that we try to feed everyone who enters the country - of course, with all of the asshats who have to tell me that Europe is better at everything I'm not looking forward to it nearly as much, and with what I'll be working in I'm going to have more limited options now that I know what I'll be specializing in, but I'm fairly certain that someone can grow up in the States and not be an American.

Jeff

I'm generalising. I freely acknowledge not everyone has that world view, but it is pretty endemic, in my experience.

Do you consider yourself part of a minority in your country when it comes to how you conceptualise yourself and your role in America?

 

[derek]

i thought italy was awesome, but i didnt make a thread about it either. so what?

That wasn't my point. I used that example because it illustrated what I was trying to say. Perhaps it is more apparent to me because I'm not American. I've met American's all over the world and the experience I had was that even the more free-thinking and globetrotting amongst them have a very American-Central world view, moreso than any other nationality I've encountered outside of it's home.

Surely you can't deny me that observation?

 

[JBroll]

I'm generalising. I freely acknowledge not everyone has that world view, but it is pretty endemic, in my experience.

Do you consider yourself part of a minority in your country when it comes to how you conceptualise yourself and your role in America?

Depends - I usually do, but in some circles (intellectually-oriented student organizations, for example) others like that tend to start showing those same traits. I think it's a lot more common than we'd think but people generally have to hide it.

Jeff

 

[Dead Winter]

You are aware that nobody here would ever refer to themselves as a Euro?

I think you've blurred the lines a little too much. In the same way that the sheer size of the United States makes it almost an amalgamation of different countries, the European continent is so culturally and historically diverse I frankly find it insulting to have everything bundled up and labelled "Euro".

As interesting as your comparison between the two is, and the invaluable experience you have living in both Europe and the U.S, I think you're still way off the mark.

Let me make this perfectly clear: the only reason I said Euro in the first place was because I didn't feel like distinguishing every single country in the EU. Euros was to be shorthand for Europeans, that's all.

Now you know how it feels when people call us "stupid Americans". Every part of the US is so different, although we're united under one language, it still pisses me off to be lumped in with the rest of the dumbasses. Then when we're defensive about it, they say it's because we're blind and insecure, yet the only thing different between the two continents is language. There is absolutely no difference between the people of the EU and the US...just cultural and governmental differences. It's not like comparing Martians to Earthlings, we're just in a different environment.

 

[Dead Winter]

That wasn't my point. I used that example because it illustrated what I was trying to say. Perhaps it is more apparent to me because I'm not American. I've met American's all over the world and the experience I had was that even the more free-thinking and globetrotting amongst them have a very American-Central world view, moreso than any other nationality I've encountered outside of it's home.

Surely you can't deny me that observation?

Dude, seriously. Have you ever met a Londoner?

Come on. COME ON!!! The most central-minded people in the world come from England. Culture, etiquette, education, globe-trotted, free-spirited, wanderlust...those are all the great qualities that the English are known for. Like you said about Americans, I've never met an Englishman/woman who would give up eating shit in England to live in a better place. It's so deeply rooted in tradition that coming out of that bog is a real feat for many Brits.

Secondly, have you ever lived in Italy? Italians know that they aren't in the greatest country in the world, but they still consider Italy personally the greatest. How many times have you heard while eating, "Beh, the food's good, but not as good as my mom's cooking" while you're with Italians? I hate that shit, but that's just how they are. Everything that you grow up with, every good thing you experience in your home will always be with you in your life, and if there was a country where every citizen got free blow jobs every hour by porn stars, it still wouldn't be as good as their homeland.

 

[derek]

I've lived in Italy, yes.

Again, I'm just making an observation. I'm aware of how people from London feel about their city. I'm just saying I think American's have more of their world view home-rooted than most other nations. That was all.

There was no judgement involved, I like pretty much every American I've met here and most that I've met in real life. Don't take it so personally. I've spoke to this before with American students and friends of mine and they sometimes don't even realise how it works upon them. It's just a product of being brought up there. Of course it happens elsewhere, but it's never as powerful.

 

[Dead Winter]

I think it was due to the fact that for a long time the US really was one of the best places to live, but that was years ago, at least 25-30. Now that the rest of the world has grown, the US more or less remained stagnant. We are facing the same problems we've been facing the past 50 years.

 

[Dead_Lioness]

Chris, I think what you're talking about regarding Americans is based
on the culture of this country. Like many things: we are being brought up according to culture "guide lines" way if we like it or not. While some of us break out of those lines and may see the world objectivaly, most people live their lives accordingly and can neevr shake the culture off of them.

Being "proud that you're an Ameican" is something that is rooted in this country's culture same way it is in England... Just think of how this country
was built and founded and you'll have a better picture.

I remember when I fist moved here I was in shock to discover most jobs
only offer 14 off days INCLUDING sick days. Do you have any idea
how rediculous that is to me? In Israel they give you 30 paid days NOT including sick days. When I lived in Holland I got 24 days and in Canada I got 21 days. (plus a sick day a month)
I bitched and complained, but then a lot of people told me that crappy as it may be, it is based in the country's culture: America was built on hard work, and the culture here is: WORK WORK WORK. Wether we agree with that or not: that's not the point: it's the American culture... see my point?

I don't think there is such place on the globe that is "perfect" per se, and that 100% of the population can agree apon... What is perfect for Derek, may not be perfect for me, and so on.
I do however encourage ANYONE to go out there and explore, and see other places... Like I said in my FIRST post: people who have never lived outside of their hometown/ country have no right to judge places based on "what they see on TV"
I can tell you that every place I have ever lived in, I could find wonderful things and at the same time: shitty things... with every plus, there is a minus hiding somewhere....

 

[Galiral]

and if there was a country where every citizen got free blow jobs every hour by porn stars, it still wouldn't be as good as their homeland.

can i sig this?

 

[Dead Winter]

Go for it!!!!