How do keep drummer sane?!?

[FrancescoFiligoi]

Happens everytime with my drummer too, exactly as you describe hahahaha

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

Tell him to grow the fuck up and play the songs until they are good enough.
Does your drummer write his own drumparts or does he get finished "demo"songs with programmed drums to work from?

 

[bryan_kilco]

I normally program drums for demo stuff and he likes most of what I make so he tries to mimic that, for the most part.

Yesterdays session. Was not good. I don't even want to say how much we got done in 4 hours. =/ I don't have scratch guitars laid down for most of this because he normally prefers to track to just the click, but this song we were working on totally fucked him up without the guide guits.

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

Guess that could be part of the issue, you program things that are to advanced for him, he thinks he nails it in a loud rehearsal place, and then when he hears how it sounds on tape; instant breakdown

 

[drew_drummer]

Are you absolutely sure that you're not being a douchebag?

 

[bryan_kilco]

Guess that could be part of the issue, you program things that are to advanced for him, he thinks he nails it in a loud rehearsal place, and then when he hears how it sounds on tape; instant breakdown

This, exactly.

Are you absolutely sure that you're not being a douchebag?

I'm not being a slave driver or anything. I try to stay positive and try to keep him positive. Trying to get him to look at the big picture and how proud he'll be in the end once he gets some of these tougher parts nailed.

 

[scorpio01169]

Oh I remember the days before drum programs and when you wrote a song, took it to practice and told the drummer a round about way you wanted it and he got close but in his way. I promise you....stop writing songs to a programmed track, let the drummer be the drummer and the bassist be the bassist....life will be much easier. Dont rush to get into the studio, practice until you feel the drummer has HIS part they way HE wants it and everyone else is comfy with their parts, then go and record it.

 

[Max Morton]

Oh I remember the days before drum programs and when you wrote a song, took it to practice and told the drummer a round about way you wanted it and he got close but in his way. I promise you....stop writing songs to a programmed track, let the drummer be the drummer and the bassist be the bassist....life will be much easier. Dont rush to get into the studio, practice until you feel the drummer has HIS part they way HE wants it and everyone else is comfy with their parts, then go and record it.

It is true for some genres, but it just does not work with lots of tighter styles. I'd say "unfortunately, it does not work", because from the point of justice, you should earn right to play and record super technical extra tight stuff. If you can't but you generated in in Guitar Pro.... well That's how it happens and it's wrong.
When I get back to listening the older bands I adore, like Deep Purple or Grand Funk Railroad, their tightness does sound like it's earned by years of practice. As a listener, you definitely know that Ian Paice or Don Brewer are kickass!
But those days are over. And forcing your clients to play it "unhumanly" tight can just leave you with empty pockets.

 

[hahallur]

Is he having problem with something specific, like nailing the double kicks?

My drummer is pretty awesome with his hands and writes cool stuff. His double kicks though are pretty sloppy and thats probably because he doesn't really practice double kick heavy material, when he arrives first to the rehearsal space you can usually hear him play A change of seasons by DT and while thats impressive that won't help him get better on the kick. I sorta gave up on spending hours on end trying to get the kicks perfect when I pretty much know it'll get replaced by some uber sample. It's about the only drum I completely replace.

For the coming sessions this summer I'm planning to mute the bass drum completely and just close mic the beater or see if the trigger gets enough signal. Then quantize the kick heavily and get it align. It'll be interesting and I'm really hoping it's gonna save my sanity.

 

[DavePiatek]

If all else fails, one thing that has helped me in the past is to track without the kick drum and then program it. It's easier to sell to a drummer, since it has practical implications (ease of editing, flexibility with changing kick accents if needed, etc.) and still allows the sound of real drums on the recording. Just something to consider.

Top-level advice. I do this all the time.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Is he having problem with something specific, like nailing the double kicks?

Pretty much this. Some of the clicks are faster than we play it live/at practice. I feel like if some parts were any slower, it'd take a bunch of energy out of the music. Certain fast double kicks or blast beats give him some trouble. I think that he doesn't notice these things in a live situation as much as being under the microscope of recording.

We've been working through it and when a part gives him trouble for like 10+ takes, we just move on and spend our limited time getting the rest of the song done and coming back later to the tougher parts. <--- Not so sure how I feel about that. The parts have to get done sooner or later, but after trying and failing a bunch of times, he's tired and sweating and we're almost better off skipping the part for the time being and actually getting something recorded rather than bashing our heads against the wall for a few hours.

 

[Vicioushead]

It's obviously hurting his ego. There's something about recording for some people that makes them feel like they are being micro-analysed and I think a lot of musicians find that hard to deal with.

He might be thinking that having to do multiple takes means he's not very good. A few guys I've worked with had that misconception. Maybe talk to him when he's not so wound up and see what's upsetting him?

 

[Smegzor]

Pretty much this. Some of the clicks are faster than we play it live/at practice. I feel like if some parts were any slower, it'd take a bunch of energy out of the music.

After reading this I can't blame him. Did he have the opportunity to practice the songs at the speed you're asking him to play them? Did you mention that they would be recorded faster?

 

[xFkx]

It's obviously hurting his ego. There's something about recording for some people that makes them feel like they are being micro-analysed and I think a lot of musicians find that hard to deal with.

He might be thinking that having to do multiple takes means he's not very good. A few guys I've worked with had that misconception. Maybe talk to him when he's not so wound up and see what's upsetting him?

well.. recording music that is on the brink of your abilities is always a stressful situation, even if you try your best, often you fail to cut the take. Either you adjust the music to your skills, or adjust the skills to the music.

 

[Vicioushead]

The point I am making is that it might be within his abilities but having a couple of bad takes can really affect confidence levels. He might just need some encouragement or re-assurance that he's good enough.

Some musicians are vulnerable like that.

 

[Studdy]

I don't know if this is the case but in my experience a lot of bands are not always playing to click tracks (practice etc.) So usually when it comes time to record something the guitarist (or main songwriter) will be the one who comes up with the click track (BPM). Although it maybe 99% perfect it is off just enough to throw off the "naturalness" or flow the drummer always played. I guess the moral of my story is to always practice/write to the click if you are going to record with one. This advice is to be taken lightly because so many great drum tracks are based on feel and are not super tight to a grid. I think a lot of bands out there with extremely tight to the grid drumming are the ones who use a click or at least envision the click during the whole process.

 

[TheDarkProject]

We made our drummer play to clicks for months before we went into the rehearsal room. We found out that way that one song had to come down by 10bpm for him to be able to play it, but as a result he ended up nailing that one in about 30 minutes in the studio. On the other hand, parts in other songs where he'd been playing it wrong (but in time, so it wasn't obvious) for months were impossible to change in the rehearsal room as his muscle memory was far too ingrained. The lesson we learned is that you need to be practising what you want to record, not a rough approximation of it. You should never be going into a studio trying to record at a BPM that you've never played at. Either change the speed, change the part, program the part, or stop recording and come back after a few months of nailing it in the rehearsal room.

 

[mva801]

Yeah this type of stuff happens all the time. Usually when you get the "that's how we've always played it" excuse, then you've been playing it WRONG for the last two years. In a practice space it's much harder to tell what is going on with the drums/ bass - especially if you're blasting/ playing fast doubles. Almost EVERY single "metal" drummer I've ever recorded has been sloppy, and VERY unaware of how sloppy they are. Most need to practice WAY more to a click, and slow the click WAY down, until they can play perfectly a bit slower. Then slowly ratchet up the click tempo.

In this situation, the best option is to record just the hands, and paste the kicks. If you can't easily compromise on a tempo/ arrangement that can be played well in a reasonable amount of time by all players, then whoever can't keep up needs to practice more or be let go. I've had two or three bands search for a new drummers after hearing them under microphones for the first time....

 

[bryan_kilco]

Ugh. Well, last nights session was decent. He started getting pissed off again and screaming when he fucks up a take.

"That's wayyyy too fast!!!", drops BPM by 10, then drummer plays faster than click.

He psychs himself out and makes everything much harder than it should be.

Super, super frustrating and this is literally the last time I'll ever record my own band.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Such a weird mindset to put yourself in.

It's so much easier to just say "fuck yes, this is my bitch. I'm going to nail this pussy down."

Then smash that shit.