How do put songs in order?

ParsonsMatt

Alas, Tyranny
Nov 15, 2006
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Athens, GA
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So, I just finished writing all the music for my next solo CD... my last CD was a concept album, so putting the songs in order was really easy, but this one isn't, and I have no idea how to really order the songs.

Right now I've just got them arranged from shortest song to longest song (totally pulling a Wintersun here :lol:), but does anyone else have any suggestions?
 
+1 to ahjteam, but after the good, better and best songs, put a song that will change the mood, and build that from there again.
 
strong fast track
strong fast track
single track(strongest)
slower/mid tempo
single track(second strongest)
fast track
mid tempo
fast track
 
just fuck with track orders for a while and get a feel for the flow of the album
do it based on gut feeling and nothing else, because that's what'll be correct
 
If you are trying to get label attention the best song should be first. If you don't care about that sort of stuff just make sure the song "flow" well together
 
put the stuff that is most different and more involved / progressive / longer in the middle.

You want to catch the attention 1st, doesn't matter if its a fast song or not, just has to be one of the best songs you have. Follow that up with a song that is different from the 1st in tempo but just as strong to help break it up but still keep the energy going. 3rd song is a good spot for something more stripped down and "single" oriented. At that point maybe something fats if you have it, go into the more progressive stuff, after a couple songs like that put your weakest tune and then the last song should be very strong.

Think of the album flow like a guitar solo. Grab the attention, make a statement, get a little adventurous, oops! made a small mistake but they'll never remember cause now I end the solo with the killer melody / bend / dive / whatever.
 
Think of the album flow like a guitar solo. Grab the attention, make a statement, get a little adventurous, oops! made a small mistake but they'll never remember cause now I end the solo with the killer melody / bend / dive / whatever.


+1 Awesome analogy, simile, wtfe...

-P
 
I agree to put the best song first (assuming it's a catchy song and not a 10min epic which should go last imo), the rest I'd try to dispense evenly, not all the good songs together and then all the rest like ahjteam suggested.

Having said that, I always set my cd/mp3 player on random/shuffle play so to me it's not that important in general.
 
First ones should be the catchiest, the one that has the killer riff right at the beginning and keeps the attention. Single ones, the "best" in terms of average audience effect, should be 2nd or 3rd. The "best" for you as the musician can be placed later. It's just that the first ones will be the most listened one. For those who have a myspace, and put songs on it, you know what I am talking about. Whatever are your songs, if you put them all at the same time, there are 95% of chance that the play count will decrease, song by song.

Last one can be the long epic melodical one. Rest is all about what you have.

Long time ago, I was always surprised how I loved every 7th track from almost all albums (excepted those who only contain 7/8/9 tracks) ! Now I know if I had an album of at least 9 tracks, I would have to put one of my favs in the 7th tracks, just because I'm used to it, for some personnal random statistic events !
 
I tend to think of the song structure of a cd the same way I think of a song. Steve Vai described it best .....

you start with a statement, establish your mood, build to a dramatic climax, then bring it down.....

Thats how a structure just about everything I do.
 
I have thought about this alot, and found that this is the ultimate:

1. Strong Opener, if metal, it's probably a fast song.
2. Good song that shows alot of the aspects that your CD will cover.
3. The song most people will probably like (ie. "radio hit")
4. "Filler song", just one of the song you don't know where else to put.
5. Another great song. Probably "radio hit" #2.
6. The weirdest song, one that sticks out alot in style.
7. "Filler song" #2.
8. 3'd great song.
9. Massive outro song (probably has a long and nice outro riff in it).

Also, you can insert an Interlude song (1-2 min acoustic/instrumental) before 4, 5, 8 or 9.
That's what I think would be the ultimate CD.
 
our current full length is structured like this

- kickass opener, all kinds of weird shit and really get's you an idea of what to expect.
- much straighter yet still on the fast side
- more melodic/laid back/catchy ("single")
- one of the most progressive tracks
- slamming heavy ass shit
- instrumental
- prog shit
- melodic/catchy one
- brutal
- all of it summed in one track, similar to the opener.

there was a LOT trial and error involved though.

in general, try to have something attention grabbing that sums up your style well in the first position. if i pop in a cd and i'm not impressed 1 minute through the first song, it's almost over.
second one can be a lot of things, but slight contrast to the first one works best usually.
after that it's melody time, some single stuff.
whacky prog shit and instrumentals somewhere in the middle.
fillers (if any) in the last 1/3rd.
just remember to close with something epic and kickass.
 
Thanks for all the advice! It looks like my previous plan of just putting the songs in ascending order lengthwise follows just about all of the direction you've given me. Gotta love it when it works out like that.
 
4. "Filler song", just one of the song you don't know where else to put.

Why put it there at all?

6 kickass songs >> 12 songs of which 6 are filler :p

Many times, I first consider which songs I feel that sound like album beginning material, then which songs sound like album ending material, and then that leaves the middle songs

Then I consider those three parts as "EPs", and make each really fitting. At this point, it could look like this:

1. Beginning song A
2. Beginning song B
3. Beginning song C

4. Middle song A
5. Middle song B
6. Middle song C

7. Ending song A
8. Ending song B
9. Ending song C

And for my own upcoming full length, the songs are divided like this:

1. Energetic, quite fast, with a catchy chorus, no slowdowns
2. Dark, driving, slightly slower, very low notes mostly, slightly experimental riffs, exploding end with buildup
3. Straight to a body moving 4/4 beat, dark melody, a couple of half-tempo interludes, mostly very forward-going

4. A different kind of mood, more keyboard-oriented, melodic chorus, hard-hitting industrial breakdown
5. Directly to an extremely intense black metal piece that barely lets you off, ice-cold with eerie dark melodies
6. Slightly slower black metal, more melodic chorus, modulates one semitone lower in the end, intensifies towards the end

7. Industrial D-beat, very different in mood, also somewhat fast, lots of orchestral swells to bring the haunt ;) Like driving through a thunderstorm that starts to break up near the end, and shows a bit of sunshine...
8. ...only to lead to the most depressing sounding song of the album :lol: Very slow doom metal with a very dark mood, haunting and dynamic until the keyboard conclusion
9. Outro track, completely electronic, a mixture of dark ambient and electronica, dark and unnerving - whispers, haunting noises and experimental dark harmonies
 
for our upcoming I have this flow:

1. Slow / mid tempo tune with probably the catchiest riff and a super melodic chorus. About 5:30 long with several tempo changes to help set the stage for the rest of the cd

2. Fast track with moshy bridge section and lots of solo wanking, ends with some crazy vocal shit to bring it home ... about 6:00 long

3. Mid tempo but pretty aggressive tune with a nice melodic chorus. Very stripped down arrangement, super pissed sounding in the bridge and a couple of fast, almost punk-like breaks to help change it up. One of the shorter tunes, like 4:30. Has that "single" feel

4. Mid-tempo / slower, more progressive tune. Dense layering, a bit of orchestration, huge chorus, semi-proggy mid section. About 6:30 long

5. Very fast tune, one of the biggest chorus sections from any of our tunes, choir vocals throughout ... kinda Blind Guardian-esque from their "Imaginations" cd. About 4:30 - 5:00 long

6. Something totally different. Very slow, almost ballad-like song with lots of layering and effects, clean guitars, etc ... builds into a very technical and aggressive bridge section that then goes into some progressive, quasi-black metal riffing and blast beats. End section was inspired by Bathory from "Blood Fire Death" cd with very Jorn Lande type vocals over top. A bit longer, song is like 6:00 - 6:30

7. Mid tempo, very aggressive almost Iced Earth type riff and feel. Middle eastern feel to the riffs and melodies, even has a keyboard solo. Short and to the point kinda song, about 4:00 long. Very punchy to help grab the attention again and add some adrenaline after the slower tune

8. Slow / ballad type song again, alternates from soft to heavy. Lots of acoustics and some orchestration. Builds to a very heavy but short double bass driven mid section before the big solo and ending. About 5:00 long

9. Another "single" song. Song has a very radio-oriented sound even though that was never the point. Very plodding, heavy mid-tempo grooves with a repetitive bass-line that drives the riff home. Gets a little adventurous in the mid section with some great synchronized double bass - guitar chug stuff. About 4:30 long

10. The Epic. Fastest tune, which goes into probably the heaviest riffs and moshiest part on the cd, my best solo work ever that I'll never be able to repeat, full on blast beats and black metal inspired harmonized drill picking, huge orchestral section and closes with an absolutely EPIC sounding choir chorus. Longest tune, about 8:30