How Do You Feel About Veganism?

[Blurry_Dreams]

@PrincessHades
i also meant
that in America, most of the people protesting the "cruelty to animals" thing are completely ignoring the way that humans are designed to eat meat

 

[PrincessHades]

@PrincessHades
i also meant
that in America, most of the people protesting the "cruelty to animals" thing are completely ignoring the way that humans are designed to eat meat

I agree. Their intentions are often admirable, even if there's a bit of grandstanding, but the consequences of ignoring facts and using extreme sensationalism that the average person just can't relate to are actually so bad for animal welfare.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

I agree. Their intentions are often admirable, even if there's a bit of grandstanding, but the consequences of ignoring facts and using extreme sensationalism that the average person just can't relate to are actually so bad for animal welfare.

animal welfare and human diet should be 2 completely separated issues
humans should eat animals, but the food-animals need to be healthy in order for the humans eating those animals to be healthy
the way the food animals are being treated is actually making the meat you buy on a store shelf toxic

 

[PrincessHades]

animal welfare and human diet should be 2 completely separated issues
humans should eat animals, but the food-animals need to be healthy in order for the humans eating those animals to be healthy
the way the food animals are being treated is actually making the meat you buy on a store shelf toxic

This seems like you're trying to make an artificial separation as a reaction to the behavior of vegans. There's no reason that those who care about animal welfare shouldn't be conscious of what they consume. You're correct, but imo the two go hand in hand. Healthier animals, healthier food, healthier public.

The problem comes when you insist that people are "murderers" for doing something that's been a part of human life for millennia. That just makes people not want to think about the issue at all, and instead go into denial about the nature of their food.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

This seems like you're trying to make an artificial separation as a reaction to the behavior of vegans. There's no reason that those who care about animal welfare shouldn't be conscious of what they consume. You're correct, but imo the two go hand in hand. Healthier animals, healthier food, healthier public.

The problem comes when you insist that people are "murderers" for doing something that's been a part of human life for millennia. That just makes people not want to think about the issue at all, and instead go into denial about the nature of their food.

my point here is that most of the Americans who are are now becoming vegans are actually really trying to just completely abolish any humans eating any meat altogether, which is horrendously idiotic

 

[PrincessHades]

my point here is that most of the Americans who are are now becoming vegans are actually really trying to just completely abolish any humans eating any meat altogether, which is horrendously idiotic

I'm definitely with you here, it's a completely unachievable goal, and not something we should be aiming for anyways. It makes it feel like it's more about them and making themselves feel better than it is real-world change.

 

[CiG]

my point here is that most of the Americans who are are now becoming vegans are actually really trying to just completely abolish any humans eating any meat altogether, which is horrendously idiotic

You're so low IQ and meth'd out. Abolishing meat consumption is literally the easiest part to solve for, from a vegan perspective. There are myriad alternatives to what you can get from consuming meat. The biggest obstacle veganism faces is all the other uses we have for animal products, the things we are barely even cognizant of.

Also you're (both) seemingly unable to perceive this subject from the perspective of those you're critiquing. It's like asking a pro-lifer why they aren't content with not having abortions themselves and constantly try to stop everybody else from having them too. Because they view it as murder, and why would you sit by as murder is normalised? Same deal with vegans. If you believe in a fundamental concept like animal rights, why wouldn't you try to push that on society? To not do so would be absurd.

What's truly "horrendously idiotic" to me is a homeless meth-head saying we are "designed" to eat meat because, when he feels queasy, he eats a bit of meat and he's immediately cured. What kind of retarded shit is that? You're homeless, your diet is likely abysmal, and even if it were true, that doesn't mean meat itself is the remedy you fucking sped, it means you get things from meat that can help with queasiness that are 1000% replicable from other things. Meat isn't magic, animals eat things that they pass onto us when we consume them, eating meat is more convenient is all, but it's not necessary so why wouldn't a vegan argue to abolish it?

TL;DR you're a dumbass.

 

[PrincessHades]

You're so low IQ and meth'd out. Abolishing meat consumption is literally the easiest part to solve for, from a vegan perspective. There are myriad alternatives to what you can get from consuming meat. The biggest obstacle veganism faces is all the other uses we have for animal products, the things we are barely even cognizant of.

Also you're (both) seemingly unable to perceive this subject from the perspective of those you're critiquing. It's like asking a pro-lifer why they aren't content with not having abortions themselves and constantly try to stop everybody else from having them too. Because they view it as murder, and why would you sit by as murder is normalised? Same deal with vegans. If you believe in a fundamental concept like animal rights, why wouldn't you try to push that on society? To not do so would be absurd.

What's truly "horrendously idiotic" to me is a homeless meth-head saying we are "designed" to eat meat because, when he feels queasy, he eats a bit of meat and he's immediately cured. What kind of retarded shit is that? You're homeless, your diet is likely abysmal, and even if it were true, that doesn't mean meat itself is the remedy you fucking sped, it means you get things from meat that can help with queasiness that are 1000% replicable from other things. Meat isn't magic, animals eat things that they pass onto us when we consume them, eating meat is more convenient is all, but it's not necessary so why wouldn't a vegan argue to abolish it?

TL;DR you're a dumbass.

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I've dabbled very briefly in veganism and I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian and also a pescatarian for fair periods of time, all for animal welfare reasons.

Aggressively pushing for the abolition of something that's so deeply ingrained in people's minds as a normal behavior is all but useless. It does work for some people (hence why they become vegans), but for most people, it just makes them want to ignore the problem because they don't like thinking about it.

Most people, when attacked, are more likely to push back (sometimes doubling down even) than they are to actually look at why they're being attacked and seek to change that. It's very possible that radical abolitionist activism could cause people who'd otherwise care about the cause in some way (say, cut down on meat, by from better sources, support animal welfarist laws) to shy away from it entirely and become the same types of people who brag about eating meat unlike those "squeamish PC libruhl snowflakes".

The problem I have with vegan activism (not the lifestyle) is pretty much the same problem I have with most other forms of radicalism. Generally, I don't want to miss out on a couple inches of progress because I wouldn't accept anything short of a mile. People love fights, causes, etc, but at a point, I think some people get way too caught up in their fights, to the extent that they compromise their causes, and this is one of the biggest problems I see in the activistic sphere.

edit note: cleaned some stuff up and removed a sentence just to make my tone more in line with my intent

 

[CiG]

That's the nature of activism, to be the more radical voice that shifts the Overton window.

 

[PrincessHades]

There're two ways of looking at this. One is what you said, the other is "every action has an equal and opposite reaction". Neither perspectives are wrong, but I think it's important to have a balance between the two.

Everyone should stand for what they believe in, but we have to be careful of the hills we choose to die on.

 

[CiG]

If you view the animal product industry as something approximating a speciest genocide, it's probably an easy choice for a lot of vegans to die on that hill. I also think the proof is in the pudding if you look at the stats, as veganism has only become more accepted, adopted and mainstream since it ideologically schismed with vegetarianism in the early 1900's.

 

[PrincessHades]

If you view the animal product industry as something approximating a speciest genocide, it's probably an easy choice for a lot of vegans to die on that hill. I also think the proof is in the pudding if you look at the stats, as veganism has only become more accepted, adopted and mainstream since it ideologically schismed with vegetarianism in the early 1900's.

These are good points. I definitely understand it, but I think getting the general public on board with completely abstaining from meat consumption is a next to impossible goal. As for veganism as a concept distinct from vegetarianism in general being relatively new, that's an interesting point.

I think that lab grown meat may be a much more viable solution to this problem. Inevitably, there will be a contingent of crazies who think that it's some sort of government-engineered bioweapon and insist that they'll only eat meat from slaughtered animals, but realistically, I think that would be the best way to all but eliminate large scale animal agriculture.

Between now and then, I think that those who can afford to do so should vote with their wallets. Reduce meat consumption overall, and stick to stuff that's farmed more ethically. I also hope more and more laws are passed to ensure that animals aren't mistreated, and I hope more and more people start to care about where their food comes from.