How do you know THE MONEY TONE?

[Ngoc]

I began micing my Harley Benton Cab 2x12 Vintage with a single SM57 for a project I'm currently working on (this cab can still sound pretty decent, everyone of you know Ola ) and you all know, that when you mic an amp that the unprocessed signal usually (except with really great equip) doesn't sound that clear and usable.

Sometimes I thought that it sounded pretty good, not that harsh and then after EQ'ing everything and getting rid of the fizz, the real tone is too dark, the "top end" of the sound was the fizz



And now, how do you guys know that the raw tone you get is the money tone?

What aspects are you paying attention, when you hear the raw guitars?


Thanks in advance!

 

[Trevoire520]

The big thing I find is to use new strings. With old strings the treble from the guitar disappears and all you're left with in the high frequencies is fizz with no actual note content.
Keep in mind though that a tone that sounds too bright solo'd might actually be ok once it's in a mix with drums and cymbals, which can mask some of the brightness in the guitar.
Some guys on here also like tracking with a slightly darker tone and adding brightness with eq later on.

 

[Sloan]

When you hear it, you will shit bricks.

 

[Ngoc]

The big thing I find is to use new strings. With old strings the treble from the guitar disappears and all you're left with in the high frequencies is fizz with no actual note content.
Keep in mind though that a tone that sounds too bright solo'd might actually be ok once it's in a mix with drums and cymbals, which can mask some of the brightness in the guitar.
Some guys on here also like tracking with a slightly darker tone and adding brightness with eq later on.

I used new strings while recording the DI's and now I only reamp them.
I also tried tracking a slightly darker tone but then I wasn't really able to eq it brighter. Usually a lot of fizz comes up with it again
Any tips?

When you hear it, you will shit bricks.

I want to hear it!!!!

 

[Sloan]

Guitar shit is WEIRD. I still struggle to get results that I like. After years of fucking with recording shit I can get my bass and drums sounding rad, but as soon as the guitar enters the mix it's a different story. it just takes a lot of time and experience to start getting it right.remember that the bass will cover a lot of shit, in reality distorted guitar is almost just 'noise' so it's just shaping noise. i dunno, i'm drunk as fuck.

 

[ahjteam]

Position the mic so that you use closed headphones while monitoring what is coming from the speaker, you will hear when the fizzy shit disappears. Also check the settings on the amp; if you have the gain, treble and presence at max, no wonder why the sound will be fizzy.

 

[Ngoc]

Position the mic so that you use closed headphones while monitoring what is coming from the speaker, you will hear when the fizzy shit disappears. Also check the settings on the amp; if you have the gain, treble and presence at max, no wonder why the sound will be fizzy.

My amp sounds pretty good in the room, and all my tone knobs, presence etc. are at 12o clock. I'm still trying to get the mic position first before playing on the knobs Gain is pretty low, so that it's chunky but not too overgained.

So first tip for micing an amp is to get rid of the fizz. I tried that pretty often, but it still doesn't satisfy me.


Any other tips guys? When you hear the raw guitars, what do you need to hear in them so that you know that the tone is good?

 

[Fox Mulder]

What head are you using?

 

[Ngoc]

I'm using a Bugera 6262 head which goes into a Harley Benton 212 Vintage Cab miced with an SM57.

And Olas video of the Bugera 6262 is a pretty good example. When you hear the raw guitars they sound like crap:





But he can stil pull off such an awesome sound with post processing in the mix. The guitars sound sooo different! :





Somehow he had to know, that even with this raw sound he can get such a great tone. And I really want to know, how he knows it

A lot of it is EQ'ing in this example, but when the raw sound is already shit, then you can't get something like this.

 

[arv_foh]

I think you underestimate how much of a "big" guitar tone comes from the bass guitar

 

[Line666]

Yeah removing bass guitar from the equation is like taking all the balls out of it, it is so pivotal to a big guitar tone yet barely anyone notices it.

 

[B36arin]

The bass guitar is crucial, and the fact that the rhythm double tracked in the video with the music in it makes a huge difference as well.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

I'm using a Bugera 6262 head which goes into a Harley Benton 212 Vintage Cab miced with an SM57.

And Olas video of the Bugera 6262 is a pretty good example. When you hear the raw guitars they sound like crap:

But he can stil pull off such an awesome sound with post processing in the mix. The guitars sound sooo different! :

Somehow he had to know, that even with this raw sound he can get such a great tone. And I really want to know, how he knows it

A lot of it is EQ'ing in this example, but when the raw sound is already shit, then you can't get something like this.

Don't mean to be a dick, but your logic is very ill formed. If you had watched Ola's guitar tone tutorial you would know what kind of processing he does, and its not all what you would think.

The tone does not change from the raw clip to the mix clip, that's the effect of the other instruments. While there is some processing going on, its very small.

 

[bryan_kilco]

The bass guitar is crucial, and the fact that the rhythm double tracked in the video with the music in it makes a huge difference as well.

+1

And, no offense to Ola, but I heard some sloppage in the raw clip that I wouldn't have let slide.... Great playing, though.

But yes, the stereo image is so much more open in the full mix.

 

[bryan_kilco]

And....what is up with the color changing shirt?!?! Haha....cool.

 

[Ngoc]

I think you underestimate how much of a "big" guitar tone comes from the bass guitar

Yeah removing bass guitar from the equation is like taking all the balls out of it, it is so pivotal to a big guitar tone yet barely anyone notices it.

The bass guitar is crucial, and the fact that the rhythm double tracked in the video with the music in it makes a huge difference as well.

Because I already recorded the DIs I could "double track" some parts immediately- panned and even with bass they didn't sound good
I know this fact that the bass is REALLY important, I'm inexperienced in micing but not that much in mixing.

But I'm still trying out, maybe the used bass guitar is just like shit Or do you think it doesn't matter which bass guitar was used to fill out the low end?

Don't mean to be a dick, but your logic is very ill formed. If you had watched Ola's guitar tone tutorial you would know what kind of processing he does, and its not all what you would think.

The tone does not change from the raw clip to the mix clip, that's the effect of the other instruments. While there is some processing going on, its very small.

Alright, thanks. So the post processing isn't THAT much in that clip...

But then the question still remains:
How does (for example Ola) know, that his tone is still good? There should be some things in the raw sound which let you know that the tone is still pretty good?

 

[bryan_kilco]

Trial and error, my friend. Record a tone, find something you dont like, change it, record again, find something you dont like, change it, record again.....

If you have DI's then you're golden. Just keep tweaking.

Post a clip of a mix with bass and let people judge?

There are a LOT of helpful people around here and I tip my hat to these guys. (And I don't wear a hat)

 

[Ngoc]

Trial and error, my friend. Record a tone, find something you dont like, change it, record again, find something you dont like, change it, record again.....

If you have DI's then you're golden. Just keep tweaking.

Post a clip of a mix with bass and let people judge?

There are a LOT of helpful people around here and I tip my hat to these guys. (And I don't wear a hat)

Uhm... I think it's pretty much useless, because nothing has been mixed yet, The drums are currently only a stereo track without the final samples. They are only for tracking purpose

I want to get the source right before I go into mixing. That's why I'm asking how you know that the raw sound is already good.


The music is more like trivium-ish metal, not the djenty or heavy low tuned stuff. We play in D standard oder Drop C.
The funny thing is that I nearly nailed the tone from Trivium of their album "Ascendancy" by chance

But still, somehow I'm too anxious to chose a sound... I don't want to reamp again in the mixing stage because the source wasn't right ..



Today I try micing the cab again. Wish me luck

 

[Ngoc]

Okay, now I have reamped all the rhythm tracks through the Bugera...

RAW: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25157157/Bugera 6262 unprocessed.MP3

In Mix processed: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25157157/Bugera 6262 in Mix.MP3


Somehow I still think that the whole mix lacks something... but what is it?


Is it because the tones suck or are my mixing skills bad?

 

[Ngoc]

hmm, nobody can say something about it?