how do you pan double tracked rhythm guitars?

Santuzzo

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Jan 19, 2008
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Amsterdam, The Netherlands
I have a recording/tracking question:

Usually I record 2 rhythm guitar tracks, and I used to pan them 100%L / 100%R, whereas lately I been trying to pan 85L - 85R.
What would be better? I myself can't really say which panning sound better to me, to me it just sounds different, but I don't know what's better ?

any ideas/tips/advice?

Thanks,
Lars
 
If anything, two extra guitars at 85% will sound better on headphones, and keep in mind many people listen to music on them nowadays. However, if you have a really busy mix, this is not at all advised, as it will only mud things up.
 
I always do rhythms hard panned L/R, leads can vary between center and if I track those twice or do a harmony, pan them out somewhere in the 50%-60% range.
 
what does LCR mean?

Left-Centre-Right.

It refers to the technique of panning everything pretty much exclusively at 100% left or right or dead centre and nothing in between those points. Its a technique popularised by Chris Lord-Alge.
 
I always do rhythms hard panned L/R, leads can vary between center and if I track those twice or do a harmony, pan them out somewhere in the 50%-60% range.

Thank you!

Öwen;10510660 said:
Left-Centre-Right.

It refers to the technique of panning everything pretty much exclusively at 100% left or right or dead centre and nothing in between those points. Its a technique popularised by Chris Lord-Alge.

Thanks !
Does that only refer to the guitars or all tracks?
 
LCR is a great technique to make anything unlistenable and ear fatiguing on headphones.

This is so goddamn stupid it takes my breath away. So basically, 95% of major records published before the age of internet are 'fatiguing and unlistenable' on headphones?

I am trully sorry if you feel that way but as I've stated before, I don't mix according to the lowest fuckin' denominator.

Of course, this isn't an attack against Igor. I'm shure his a stand-up-guy an' an able engineer even thou he tends to say fuckd up things from time to time.
 
This is so goddamn stupid it takes my breath away. So basically, 95% of major records published before the age of internet are 'fatiguing and unlistenable' on headphones?
Not at all, I was very harsh on that comment, but they could have been done better panning wise. Also, I do agree with LCR on many things, but I still by far prefer the way Andy does the panning, he makes things sound more natural (even though people had a tendency to jump onto a bandwagon of calling his stuff 'overproduced').

I am trully sorry if you feel that way but as I've stated before, I don't mix according to the lowest fuckin' denominator.
This is also understandable, but I am one of those people who almost dominantly listen to music on headphones, so it's obvious why I like mixes to be optimized for them rather than speakers :)

Of course, this isn't an attack against Igor. I'm shure his a stand-up-guy an' an able engineer even thou he tends to say fuckd up things from time to time.
Haha, I am not that great at being an engineer as much as I know what I like/want to listen to. Still, everyone's got his own cup of tea sound wise. It's also important to notice that as much separation and range reservation can bring "punch" and "heaviness" to the mix, so can hard pan, but not in the way I like it.

Just stop already. The only posts I've seen by you are talking about how important headphones are and how hard panning is bad on them. Please post a mix.

I was planning to do it, but I always end up refining things, so I never post it :D So, will do in this or the next week or so. And in fact, I also pan guitars hard, but I have a very slight reverb mixed in with guitars on them that compensates for this, and this makes a world of difference on headphones, but doesn't seem all that noticeable on speakers. Also, if you listen to headphones a lot, you can tell the difference right away, everything seems much more connected together, room mics and a slight reverb (or a slight change of panning) make a world of difference, but this is not so evident on speakers that utilize the ROOM reverb (reverberation of the room in which you play music). Also important to note one obvious thing, that the faster your music is, you will want less verb and harder pan, and I mostly do atmospheric, very wet stuff, which some loathe as very anti-metal, like newer Gojira.

Also, do notice that neither technique is correct. CLA says HARD PAN, Sneap says SLIGHTLY IN (from what I've gathered and heard). I just know what I want and like to hear. Sneap makes things sound a tad bit more natural, CLA likes an effect of things punching from hard left, hard right and middle. No biggie.
 
New Gojira is "anti-metal"? Someone should tell them to stop playing all of those Morbid Angel riffs then.

Actually, they were considered to be more metal when they had a greater morbid angel/sepultura influence, now people consider them to be a trendy metal band, since they've changed the sound and songwriting completely. This being said, I think their guitars are panned 100% L/R but they have a reverb track in the background that feeds both guitars a bit to tracks they are not panned to, on Terra Incognita they seem to be panned 100%/100% with no background reverb track, which makes the sound way more dry and to-the-point, and both sounds sort of serve their purpose.
 
Also, do notice that neither technique is correct. CLA says HARD PAN, Sneap says SLIGHTLY IN (from what I've gathered and heard). I just know what I want and like to hear. Sneap makes things sound a tad bit more natural, CLA likes an effect of things punching from hard left, hard right and middle. No biggie.

When Sneap has spoken about panning things slightly inward he has always referenced individual riffs where only one guitar was playing - if you had those hard panned, it would sound weird and pull you out of the mix. He just automates things inward for that specific part, unless you can provide some example of him saying otherwise?

I just think you're way too caught up on headphones and end up giving advice that is, in my opinion, counterproductive.

I'm not even going to get into it with you on the Gojira being less metal or 'trendy' comment.
 
Is as 85L-85R panning considered to sound more natural than a 100L-100R panning?

I have tried both ways on some of my mixes (I admit I'm still kinda new to mixing with lots to learn), and I could not tell which sound I liked better.
 
When Sneap has spoken about panning things slightly inward he has always referenced individual riffs where only one guitar was playing - if you had those hard panned, it would sound weird and pull you out of the mix. He just automates things inward for that specific part, unless you can provide some example of him saying otherwise?
I know what you're getting at, and you can hear this on some Arch Enemy albums (I LOVE drum sound on those). However, if you read up here: "Q/How many guitars?
A/when Im going for old school thrash then its usually 2, other stuff 4. Sometimes we vary amps, usually same cab, mic (s) and gtr

I'll usually use 2 different set ups (different amps) and track 2 of each, but you have to be a tight player to do this, I'll pan 2 hard left and right and 2 in slightly."

Of course, this info could be outdated, but I still believe this is how he achieves better headphone compatibility than most people.

I just think you're way too caught up on headphones and end up giving advice that is, in my opinion, counterproductive.
I see what you're saying and why, but it gets to a moot point where you have to decide whether you want to make the best of both worlds (difference between 100% and 95% is small on speakers but huge on headphones) or just want to go with the best possible mix for a standard speaker set. I can agree I am biased, but then again, who isn't? :D It's also important to notice that there's more of this kind of software rising around and it's really useful, but it still doesn't make a natural sounding 'speaker emulation' vibe.

I'm not even going to get into it with you on the Gojira being less metal or 'trendy' comment.
I am actually talking about 'fan reviews' on (pretty stupid) review sites. There are these bandwagons: first the band was underrated, then it was overrated, then people had those two bandwagons to jump onto, when it's really just a great band that has some inventiveness to it and a crushing live performance. I was called a faggot by "oh so metal" guys for liking L'enfant Sauvage. There's no help for these guys, for whom anything that hits Roadrunner has to suck, no matter what.

In my opinion, all Gojira albums are great, and all in different ways, since the songwriting, type of singing and production are all incredibly different on all of them, of course, inhibiting certain elements that give Gojira some remarkable vibe, which is why it's one of few bands I have a whole discography of (though I don't listen to The Link a lot, too repetitive for everday listening).