How do you write a metal song(s)?

[AD Chaos]

Black, orquestral type.
Trying to write easy- that's something I've tried more than once, but I find myself inevitably overcomplicating things all the time, which has proven to work nicely riff-wise, but not song-wise in my case.

Skinny Viking, I'm very aware of when a song -or a part of a song- is working or when is not. Otherwise I would have easily settled for the first thing written a long time ago.
I'm currently working on just the form of the songs, with several riffs that should somehow fit since most share tempo, instrumentation and key. Yes I should be flexible to the riffs changing so they adapt better -that's something I'm working on.
Another thing I'm doing is stepping away from the room, DAW, the guitar and everything else, and 'play' or hum the stuff only in the head, that also seems to be giving me more clarity.

 

[Cognition]

I've never had problems writing songs, but it took me a long time to write songs that I thought were reasonably good. One thing that helped me was that I bought a cheap book about song writing. It was targeted at pop song writers, and had very clear rules, for instance in terms of how long the intro, verse and chorus should be, etc. Obviously this didn't work out quite so well in the beginning, since I wasn't really trying to write pop music. However one very important thing the book taught me was "focus". Every second of music I include in the song I need to justify. In my old songs I had shitloads of riffs, but the songs were lacking focus and completeness, but now I find I can write much better songs with half that amount of riffs. I don't follow the rules from the book, but I learned a lot from trying to make songs following those structures and then finding my own variation of that.

I now write songs in 2 main styles
-Songs with an intro, verse, chorus, outro and a couple of bridges
-Progressive songs with just new parts and no repetition whatsoever. This works because the songs take the listener on a journey, and even though each part is different, they are linked together.

 

[Seizure.]

With guitar! YES!

 

[colonel kurtz]

1)smoke some herb

2)pound some beers

3)crank amp

4)let riffs rock

5)write down riffs, piece together until song is done

 

[narcossintese]

Everything I learned about song structure I´ve got from punk rock.

 

[Rez]

Dunno if this helps but I'm a bit odd with songwriting. Pretty much all of my song ideas are written/jammed out an an acoustic guitar. I predominantly write death metal and over the years I've found that sitting downstairs in the lounge messing on the acoustic gets the riff juices flowing and I know damn well that if it sounds good on the acoustic at concert pitch its going to sound even better cranked up on a B tuned guitar!

Once I have a couple of riffs I generally tend to think about song dynamics when piecing them together. This makes you concentrate on the flow of the song and for me means that I spend time working out bridges and passing phrases that build up to a chorus, mellow out for a break etc.
Breaking down your main riff is a great way of shifting dynamics and adding tension!

If 2 riffs won't go together easily it usually means they shouldn't go together.

I'm lucky to have been writing with the same drummer for near on 15 years so once I take the ideas to him we jam around, rearrange a few parts and by that time we know if it's got legs or is a dead duck.

I don't tend to have a database of riff ideas... If they are good then I remember them is my train of thought on that one.

 

[pad9]

Besides trying the each riff/one song thing, why don't you try some basis music theory. Something as easy as chord progressions can help you go in the right direction from riff to riff.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Black, orquestral type.
Trying to write easy- that's something I've tried more than once, but I find myself inevitably overcomplicating things all the time, which has proven to work nicely riff-wise, but not song-wise in my case.

Skinny Viking, I'm very aware of when a song -or a part of a song- is working or when is not. Otherwise I would have easily settled for the first thing written a long time ago.
I'm currently working on just the form of the songs, with several riffs that should somehow fit since most share tempo, instrumentation and key. Yes I should be flexible to the riffs changing so they adapt better -that's something I'm working on.
Another thing I'm doing is stepping away from the room, DAW, the guitar and everything else, and 'play' or hum the stuff only in the head, that also seems to be giving me more clarity.

Take a handful of riffs you really dig and you feel are very compatible with each other ... could be 2 riffs, could be 6 ... lets call them Group A

Now take ANOTHER set of riffs you feel equally strong about but you feel are not compatible for whatever reason ... timing, key, etc ... Lets call them Group B

find what it is that seems most pleasant about group A ... is it the key, tempo, chord progressions?

Now start with one riff from Group B ... change the key. Maybe just try moving the whole thing up a full step, or down. It may sound weird at 1st, you're so accustomed to hearing it one way so thats normal ... after you get past that initial discomfort at hearing your own riff being played wrong, check it against Group A. You may be surprised at how easily something that never seemed close to fitting before now sounds like it was meant to go together. Repeat as many times as needed, trying in different keys, etc .... and if NONE of that works, start fucking with timing. Take that riff and rewrite it down-tempo, make that shit pure doom. Or, speed it up and add some extra little rhythm nuances ... are you starting to hear a random unrelated 3rd idea popping up now? Thats good. That might be what you were looking for but couldn't find because you were stuck in a loop with the riffs you have already

there is no right or wrong way to write a tune ... metal or otherwise. My whole point in my other comments wasn't to be a dick, it was to get you out of the idea of FORCING yourself to write something that wasn't occuring naturally. The best songs you'll ever write are ones that are genuine, not forced. But there is a lot of experimenting that is required before you start settling into YOUR groove with that. In the meantime, as you experiment, make it a point to STUDY other bands that are in the same genre. You don't have to copy them ... instead, make note of the interactions in the arrangements of a song you like. Start thinking about WHY they made a specific change from this part to that and how that might apply to something of yours

 

[fps]

Depends on the style. I would find a set of notes you feel convey a certain feeling, maybe a rhythm to them as well, and start learning to play them. Then keep playing them and playing them, trust your natural creativity to change and alter in order to make something YOURS. Let an idea sit if it doesn't work- take some time away from a song. To keep things fresh, if a series of riffs sound bland together, FORCE yourself to write a new riff in a different key or with a different root note.

 

[ahjteam]

By your own description, your riffs are too independent, unique and out of context with each other to be joined.

To me it sounds like the riffs are in different key and/or time signature and/or timebase and thats why they won't fit.

 

[AD Chaos]

I now write songs in 2 main styles
-Songs with an intro, verse, chorus, outro and a couple of bridges
-Progressive songs with just new parts and no repetition whatsoever. This works because the songs take the listener on a journey, and even though each part is different, they are linked together.

For a long time I tried making things 'progressive' as you well put it; that is, with no repeated parts, tempo changes (not just doubling or reducing by half) and modulations (more than one key) because I like those kind of songs in bands more (as surely do lots of other pplz). It shows more effort and talent as parts are more difficult to assemble together -at least IMHO. So I was trying to begin with a higher degree of difficulty.

Now I've been trying to do the intro/verse/chorus kind of thing in a single key and a single tempo (hoping to make things easier), and although I have actually completed some material, I wouldn't call it finished songs as it doesn't feel as much a song as a connected riff after the next and so on. So what I'm saying is I'm still not into repeating parts and structuring stuff as much as I should really.

 

[coreysMonster]

I usually sit in front of the computer with my guitar, fire up EZ Drummer, pick a tempo I feel best fits my mood, find a cool drum beat and just jam over it.

Sometimes I'll be looking for a certain style (usually trying to emulate Tesseract and Uneven Structure, which I never achieve -_-), but usually I'll just see what comes out. I've written heavy stuff, softer stuff, metal stuff, poppy stuff, electro stuff, piano stuff, good stuff, shitty stuff... A whole mess of different styles and recording techniques.

I find that I write songs best when I just take it one riff and one segment at a time, without thinking about things like choruses, verses, breakdowns or whatever.
If it adds to the song and flows well, stick it in. If you're just doing it for the sake of having, say, a guitar solo in your song, dont do it.

If you're stuck with two different riffs that dont fit each other, maybe try and see if you can find a way to blend into them gradually, using a different section that sounds like a mix between the two. Or, as other people have said, make two different songs out of them.

If you cant think of anything, then just leave it be for a couple of days. Do something else, get your mind away from the song, then come back to it. Sometimes I've had riffs sitting around for months because I couldnt think of anything, but then someday it just clicks and you know how you want the song to continue.

 

[Emdprodukt]

whenever I write a metal song I listen to completey different stuff (pop, punk, hc, electro, soundtracks... whatever) for two weeks. Great inspiration.

 

[amarshism]

Tremolo pick in Phrygian dominant at 270bpm for 3 and a half mins.


Done.

 

[neverpurify]

whenever I write a metal song I listen to completey different stuff (pop, punk, hc, electro, soundtracks... whatever) for two weeks. Great inspiration.

Same here. I find that I'm never really trying to write a metal song. I listen to so many other types of music and it inspires me to write. it just comes out metal because I'm fucking metal as fuck.

 

[kvoid]

For a long time I tried making things 'progressive' as you well put it; that is, with no repeated parts, tempo changes (not just doubling or reducing by half) and modulations (more than one key) because I like those kind of songs in bands more (as surely do lots of other pplz). It shows more effort and talent as parts are more difficult to assemble together -at least IMHO. So I was trying to begin with a higher degree of difficulty.

I fundamentally disagree here, but that may well be because I don't really listen to any Symphonic Black Metal post 98 (too much dramatic opera, too little Metal for me personally), but if you take a band like Emperor on Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk, and Satyricon on say Nemesis Divina, you will see at least some repetition of a central motif made an impression of essence for Emperor, whereas Satyricon on close inspection comes off as a mere riff salad that any baboon could put together, except for that one overplayed standout track which applies the old Iron Maiden (and Emperor and DarkThrone) start and end with the same riff tradition. And yeah as you see, writing a flowing verse-chorus Metal track is much harder than connecting a string of 12 or so riffs

 

[AD Chaos]

Skinny Viking much obliged for all your comments. The idea about grouping riffs seems like a very interesting way to maybe create a song with different ambiences, but also dangerous for someone who's already not dealing very well with the current ones. I guess the value there would lie in learning to 'let go' and bend or change the riffs much more, so that they adapt and interact better and more naturally (or at least less artificially or forced) with each other if I understand correctly. I guess it's naive to expect for everything to just 'flow' -I'm not good at forcing stuff and breaking the riffs I guess. I do know well however when a part is ready, but it takes forever to get there, sometimes.

The EZplayer thing seems like a gift from the gods at first glance, but I find it too robotic and hindering after a while. Good for drum beds and setting a rhythm I guess, but not so much beyond that necessarily. One thing I'm trying to do these days is humming or playing back the different riffs mentally - in my head I mean and once organized, record them freely (no metronome or midi drums or anything). Leaving them with nothing else on (separate from the actual 'song') so I don't get distracted by any kind of detail: Just focus on the form period. So far it shows promise.

About playing with an acoustic (I do it with the electric unplugged) I think that further takes away the distortion as an element of distraction. But is not easy resisting the temptation of 'turning things' back on after a short while and immediately losing focus.
On the subject of taking the chemical road(s)... Been tempted to open the mind/give me a push more than once believe me (out of despair.. with the damn riffs, that is lol) yet, I don't wanna cheat myself off true satisfaction for some reason.. also, I'm more than deranged -in the eyes of others- as it is :zombie:
But that's subject for another topic..

And about the symphonic BM yeah it's all about the 90's for me also -don't know if it's the internet mass addiction, or the cd industry gone to hell, or myspace, or gaming or what but you don't see new good things nowadays like you used to (again, a discussion for another day).

You cannot compare almighty Emperor to a Satyr..icon - that's not even the same league (technically speaking). The Ihsahn/Samoth combo playing those riffs split in 2 gtrs.. that's a level of composition and gtr riffing beyond much else -at least bm-wise.

 

[fps]

I fundamentally disagree here, but that may well be because I don't really listen to any Symphonic Black Metal post 98 (too much dramatic opera, too little Metal for me personally), but if you take a band like Emperor on Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk, and Satyricon on say Nemesis Divina, you will see at least some repetition of a central motif made an impression of essence for Emperor, whereas Satyricon on close inspection comes off as a mere riff salad that any baboon could put together, except for that one overplayed standout track which applies the old Iron Maiden (and Emperor and DarkThrone) start and end with the same riff tradition. And yeah as you see, writing a flowing verse-chorus Metal track is much harder than connecting a string of 12 or so riffs

this is the thing. little themes and motifs are important. if you're trying to do something in metal, there are two ways you can do it, in terms of the writing, or more specifically the guitar writing. you can use little ideas, distinctive chordal changes or progressions, and change them around to give a central voice to the whole work from inside your ideas. or you can try and have better riffs in your genre than everyone else.

 

[shred101]

Improvise around a starting idea (riff/etc). Write down/remember what you play.

 

[plague_rider]

quoricsant - Find 1 or more like minded musicians in your area... get some outside input on song structure... beyond listening to other bands and picking up a few tips from them, this would be the best avenue...