How do you write a metal song(s)?

[AD Chaos]

Hello
I've always had this obnoxious bottleneck on my compositions where I put up a great riff, some other day another one, and so on.. I end up with a bunch of great stuff (and a sh*tload of not so good extra material of course) that I can't seem to unify into a single, coherent song structure.

Hence my question, how do you usually build up your songs -structurally wise? write them on paper? pull through from beginning to end?
(even if you're a producer or sound enginner, I imagine some kids may have come to you with a mess of disorganized riffs they dare to call a 'song', at one time or another..)

I've read some of the parts for a rock/metal songs may or may not include:
Intro, pre-chorus, chorus, verses, clean part somewhere in the middle, bridges, collisions, breakdowns, outros, solo sections, breaks, ad libs, outros or ending riffs...

Of course by the point I have several great ideas all stuck into a single sequence I'll be having a very hard time letting any of them go (thus preventing me from finishing anything). Someone will come and say 'then just do another song with them', but the ideas are usually already constructed tempo/key/lyrics related to each other.

Any practical advice or suggestion?

Thanks

 

[RiF]

All of my songs that I like have been created in more or less one pass from beginning to the end. Each part get's inspired by the previous one. As soon as I start assembling a song from various (previously recorded) riffs, nothing worth listening to comes out of it.
A great tool IMHO for composing is Ableton Live, you can record your riffs, you can immediately listen to them in a song-like structure (which you can change on the fly) and nothing gets in your way (DAW-wise). I always start with a drum loop running and this one determines the vibe of the song. The drum loop inspires the first guitar riff, the first guitar riff inspires the next one and so on. Regarding song-structure, I am pretty simple-minded and usually end up with some A A B A A C A A C C type of stuff.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Just don't over complicate stuff really.
If you keep song structures relatively simple, it's honestly pretty easy to piece parts together. Once you've got that down, then you can start "prog-ing" it up lol.
I've wrote a few songs in less than a few hours but just keeping shit fairly simple structurally so it can be done.

 

[AD Chaos]

Creating a song in one pass from beginning to end seems nearly imposible to me. I spend some good 6-7 hours putting a riff (a prog x 4) together. The good side of that is I end up with a kick-ass riff that I've already tested thoroughly.
Plus I like being completely free and not bound or restricted by the previous part of the song when I'm writing a new riff. That is what I do because if I try to 'mold it' to another one, then the new material just sounds artificial -or uninspired at best-.

Any general ideas anyone as to how to keep some order? intro-verses-chorus wise?

 

[Seth Munson]

The band that I am recording told me this is how they write metal songs.

direct quote
"We all get naked (but keep your socks on), every sits in a circle in beanbag chairs while eating cheetos and we (they) hum. Thats how the writing process goes"

thought I would just throw in a 3rd party perspective of writing their "metal" songs

 

[arvoitus]

Biggest mistake i always make: trying to create the most awesome sounding riffs without drums ...

In other words: drum and bass can make your riff sound ten times cooler.

 

[AD Chaos]

The drums are always vital to me -at least some drum bed. Trying to adapt drums to gtr/bass later on is so much more complicated.

 

[xFkx]

You've got to learn a few things...

 

[Skinny Viking]

if you need to ask how to write a specific kind of song, you shouldn't be trying to write it

spend your time working on a type of song you DO know how to write and get better at that

 

[AD Chaos]

Once again, the riffs I write sound very good to my ears.

Is just putting them together that I find some trouble with.

 

[ScootBaloo]

Once again, the riffs I write sound very good to my ears.

Is just putting them together that I find some trouble with.

By your own description, your riffs are too independent, unique
and out of context with each other to be joined.
That means that each one of your riffs should be a separate song
and that you need to find a different way to compose the remainder
of each song. I recommend the technique mentioned previously,
where you allow the previous section to inspire the next section.

 

[grubbavitch]

+1 to this

My experience is that if they don't go together, they're a separate song. Which is good news and bad news - you're probably like me and have a whole bunch of riffs that now need fleshing out. My way around this is to write to the structure, predefine (where possible) where verses and choruses are going and be intentional about tempo or feel changes, which can often signify the start of a new section. And often, when I head out in a direction, I'll be able to hear how it should go next. Good luck with it!

There's another similar thread happening on here now with some good tips if you haven't already spotted it. I'm gonna try some of these myself.

P.S. You're avatar just winked at me...

 

[xFkx]

Once again, the riffs I write sound very good to my ears.

Is just putting them together that I find some trouble with.

Oh for christs sake, it's just a question of trail and error and experience, and listening to other songs and analysing them how they work.

I've written close to 300 songs before I started making ones that I consider decent.

Ask smy1, he's written over a 1000

 

[AD Chaos]

ScootBaloo you are right I am describing my own problem - That's because I'm not oblivious about it -I'm actually very aware of it- I just haven't figured out how to get out of the wet sand.
For new songs I always start up trying to be disciplined and obedient (following a single train of thoughts as you suggest -that always seems to be the most intelligent course of action) but, more sooner than later I start coming up with new good ideas for the song and then everything starts going to hell as usual.

I have some ninety-something songs started.. none finished (except instrumental ones) that's why I really need any help or advice I can get.
The most unifying criteria for my songs are the lyrics. That way, I do get a pretty good sense of what the music (the different riffs) should try to convey. And that part actually does work great -the music and lyrics are always perfect for each other.

grubbavitch thanks very much for that link I'll be following that thread as well

 

[AD Chaos]

Oh for christs sake, it's just a question of trail and error and experience, and listening to other songs and analysing them how they work.

I've written close to 300 songs before I started making ones that I consider decent.

Ask smy1, he's written over a 1000

'listening to other songs and analyzing them' - that's something I've always avoided, for the following reason... I've seen SO many bands that end up sounding like a cheap photocopy of what they 'like' or 'analize'. And you know, a copy will never be as good as the original! So right from the start you'd be cramping your own self, setting a limitation or roof over your head you will most likely never be able to overcome (at least from what I've seen).

But I think you're right and I might have taken it to the extreme - perhaps analizing FORM alone would be a good idea, but of course without trying to copy anybody else's style -as so many others do.

 

[barricade]

By your own description, your riffs are too independent, unique
and out of context with each other to be joined.
That means that each one of your riffs should be a separate song
and that you need to find a different way to compose the remainder
of each song. I recommend the technique mentioned previously,
where you allow the previous section to inspire the next section.

THIS!

 

[abigor731]

i am somewhat similar in that aspect
i have never succeeded in putting together riffs i've written seperately
i have a gp file with more than 1000 bars of isolated riffs that i never used
it only works if i write most parts of a song in one session
i have to come up with a great riff and then immediately i have to come up with a fitting context, otherwise it doesn't work

 

[Skinny Viking]

Once again, the riffs I write sound very good to my ears.

Is just putting them together that I find some trouble with.

and once again if the stuff you're writing doesn't naturally flow together in your ears to some extent its never gonna sound right. It'll come across as forced and not genuine, therefore, a bullshit tune. If you have something like the making of 90 different songs and haven't found a way to take SOME of those parts and make a good song out of them, you're probably working in the wrong genre or maybe on the wrong instrument

and listening to other bands and how they write songs and more importantly, arrange them, is not gonna make you "sound like a photocopy" of them unless your own ideas are sub-par to begin with. If the riffs, parts, etc .. that you're writing are solid pieces of music, they'll withstand being altered too much, although you shouldn't leave yourself closed to the idea of changing them if something new pops in that fits.

 

[neverpurify]

Keep an open mind and keep experimenting. Don't give up just because you don't feel comfortable writing any particular type of music. I don't think there is any right way to write a song.

 

[Habsburgs]

Try writing very simple, coherent pop rock/pop punk songs.
Which genre of metal are you trying to write?