How perfect should drums be quantized/edited?

[GarethSE]

Press play, close your eyes, lean back and listen.
You will feel it in your gut when something is wrong.

I dont like 100% quantized drums.
The best drummers are the ones who makes the best mistakes

Thats just a personal opinion though.

I agree.
Cynic - Focus is a great example.
They're perfectly imperfect, and the feel of the drumming is so much more human, welcoming, real, blah blah.

Although if I was listening to a metalcore album or something I would want them 100% quantized. But then if a drummer can't play boring chugga-chug bollocks that tight to begin with they don't deserve to play drums at all IMO.

 

[Seizure.]

Interesting, hope some good answers come.

I personally feel it's extremely boring to listen to something very "modern" and produced. When the kick drum sounds like it's a one sample/same velocity shit like some Guitar Pro file, I might as well just throw the music out the window.

I don't like when people use sound replacement to kill dynamics, however when they do it right and instead of killing, they bring a new level of dynamics to the mix etc... it's teh sex.

Let's hear it from experienced studio folks!

Same here!
It can sound good.
But even when it sounds "good" it makes it sounds boring to listen to imo.

 

[Exocaster]

Man then you are at the wrong forum lol!

I agree with him... and I feel that about myself sometimes when I'm on here! But- and this is OT- there's a real wealth of knowledge to be had here from people who don't look down on digital recording, low budgets and heavy music, and it's a great resource because of that.

Even if my records don't sound like yours.

Back on topic: it depends entirely on the drummer and the style. If it's ultra-modern metal stuff where the drummer is supposed to sound like a machine, then go nuts; that's what the aesthetics of the genre demand. But for anything else, metal or not, where the drummer can and does affect the feel of the music by playing behind (think AC/DC, Zeppelin) or ahead of (Rush, Maiden) the beat, leave it alone unless it's an obvious mistake.

Because lining something up to a grid doesn't make it perfect, it just makes it lined up to a grid.

If it's played by a human and supposed to sound like a machine, make it so. If it's played by a human and is supposed to sound that way, leave it alone. If it's played by a machine and supposed to sound like a human, you have some tedious programming work ahead of you.

 

[Seizure.]

Back on topic: it depends entirely on the drummer and the style. If it's ultra-modern metal stuff where the drummer is supposed to sound like a machine, then go nuts; that's what the aesthetics of the genre demand. But for anything else, metal or not, where the drummer can and does affect the feel of the music by playing behind (think AC/DC, Zeppelin) or ahead of (Rush, Maiden) the beat, leave it alone unless it's an obvious mistake.

Because lining something up to a grid doesn't make it perfect, it just makes it lined up to a grid.

If it's played by a human and supposed to sound like a machine, make it so. If it's played by a human and is supposed to sound that way, leave it alone. If it's played by a machine and supposed to sound like a human, you have some tedious programming work ahead of you.

Good points!
I still think sample replacing is to much on "default" though, ruining alot of "human and is supposed to sound that way" kinda drummers and bands.

 

[greyskull]

Every proffesionell studio quantize 100% on the grid unless the band ask for anything else. trust me i know from experience


Cheers

ERRR....
NO!

thats just not true.
Ultimately it depends on the drummer and the music
If they can play i'll touch up some timing issues on beats if they need it, and maybe tighten up fills and double kick sections. but if the drummer has a good feel why ruin it?

 

[crillemannen]

Off course not EVERY studio does it, but we are in a metal forum right?? And yes 99% of all metal bands edit there drums.

 

[PostMortem1666]

Crillemannen, I am going to have to agree with Greyskull here. A good drummer needs little or no quantizing.

Maybe studio Fredman does it but that gives you no reason to assume every studio does.

 

[crillemannen]

Ok, you dont have to agree but you are ignorent if you dont. As there are exeptions as i wrote, but most of the time the band asks
for the drums to be edit, and then im talking about you're average death/metal bands. Thats just how the industry wants it to sound.
Did you not read the Protools Backlash thread by Andy??
As he wrote many times the bands come to the studio without ever played
the songs they are about to record together. Because of time pressure etc.

And 99% procent of the time the albums that are sent to the studio
for mixing the drums are edited.

My intention is not to offend anyone, that's just based on my own
experiences. Maybe someone else around here that are a proffesionell
have different experiences??

Feel free to discuess / Cheers

 

[brandy]

Maybe someone else around here that are a proffesionell
have different experiences??

No - I agree 100%!

It surely depends on the budget/time as well as of the philosophy of the music/band.

If you record a hardcore/punk band playing drums, bass, guitar live in the studio - maybe without click, then you most likely just do some basic cuts and punch-ins as well as some correction of "too offending" mistakes... But even here - I can not remember a session which was done without one single edit.

But if it is straight death/thrash/black metal... I can not remember a session were absolutely no editing was done. If you have just one or two days for drums you most likely do not edit every single hit, just mooving some parts around, making sure that you cant hear the edits and stuff.

But in my opinion there is no need to automatically quantise ALL hits 100% perfect to the grid.

I still do all the edit manually.

 

[greyskull]

I'm a professional... and i have NEVER been asked to edit the drums... its more a necessity with some drummers

Editing the drums, of course, comp the best takes/fills etc,but as far as quantizing, if it doesnt need doing, any good engineer/producer will leave it be.

 

[Ihsahn1981]

Editing drums isnt the same as quantizing them.
An otherwise awesome take shouldnt have to be discarded just because
the drummer missed a cymbal or something.