How to tune guitars and bass (in unison)

[OctoberRust]

This might be a stupid question, but how do you tune or make your bands tune their instruments?
For example, when tuning guitar, do you hit the note and wait a little (frequency goes down) or do you keep picking the note to tune to the strongtest hit (highest pitch)?

And what do you do with bass? Their "backdrop" after hitting a note is even more dynamic, right?

I don't have problems tuning instruments but I want everything to be as perfect as possible when it comes to match guitars AND bass together.
To me it seems like there's alway a compromise between tuning to a short hit or note that lasts for more than a one-sixteenth.

 

[scorpio01169]

get a tuner

 

[OctoberRust]

I have some tuners and worked with everything in between a basic Korg pedal to a Peterson strobe. I know how to tune an instrument but as you might have noticed in the studio, there is a difference between "just tuning" (like when playing live) and "real tuning", as perfect as it can be (especially when other instruments like bass) are involved.

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

Well, melodyne?

 

[colonel kurtz]

tune your guitars with a tuner, then tune the bass by ear to the guitars

 

[Apsu]

None of you answered his question, so perhaps you don't really understand what he's asking. He's talking about the difference between the attack pitch and the sustain pitch. Strings vibrate in very peculiar and not immediately obvious ways, one of which is that the initial pitch is several tens of cents higher than when it reaches the sustained pitch, once the amplitude has decreased sufficiently.

Personally, I've had the best results with tuning to the sustained pitch of the string since part of what we perceive as attack psychoacoustically involves this initial rising/falling pitch and how the frequencies overlap, in contrast to the tuned 'note' of the sustain. Same goes for bass, despite their greater dynamics, as you mentioned.

 

[paladin shredder]

+1 to the above statement, tuning to the sustained note is what most players do. there should not be a drastic difference in the pitch of the initial attack and the sustained pitch. if there is a noticeable difference, you may want to thing about getting heavier gauge strings. there are 2 tips i can give for tuning:

1. always tune up to the correct note, never down! if you go too high and de-tune it to the correct note, the string will go flat once you start playing.
2. always stretch the strings! tune up to the correct note, tug on the string very firmly until there is no "slack", tune back up to the correct note, and repeat until the string no longer falls flat when you stretch it.

 

[fade_2_black]

I always pick the note softly as to not get that very sharp attack - no idea if this is correct or not though

 

[Splat88]

I never tune to the sustained note. When you're actually playing, you strike the strings a lot harder than when you tune. I tune the string so its in tune for about a second or two after its plucked, then it will drift slightly flat.


Here's a manual for a tuner and it says to pluck the string once per second to keep the note 'fresh' before it drifts flat.
http://www.sabine.com/resources/Tuners/Literature/RT7000-Series-OpGd-CD-020531.pdf

 

[Apsu]

That information is for the Buzz Feiten tuning system though, which is designed to attempt to compensate for a number of purportedly flawed aspects of guitar intonation and inharmonicity. After a string reaches the sustain mode of its vibration cycle, its frequency won't drift any more sharp or flat (excluding external interference) until it loses enough amplitude to enter an avalanched damping mode. The BFTS is suggesting to tune to the sharper attack mode of vibration, after which of course the string will sustain flatter, not that strings continue to flatten during the majority of their sustained vibration.

That said, the BFTS is an interesting idea, and inharmonicity is a very real and important phenomenon to deal with in the case of, say, pianos. Pianos also cover twice the octaves and have around 240ish more strings than guitars, making variations in overtone overlay a far bigger issue. Besides, cowboy chords don't sound as good with the BF corrections, most of which affect the first 3-5 frets

 

[Splat88]

That information is for the Buzz Feiten tuning system though, which is designed to attempt to compensate for a number of purportedly flawed aspects of guitar intonation and inharmonicity. After a string reaches the sustain mode of its vibration cycle, its frequency won't drift any more sharp or flat (excluding external interference) until it loses enough amplitude to enter an avalanched damping mode. The BFTS is suggesting to tune to the sharper attack mode of vibration, after which of course the string will sustain flatter, not that strings continue to flatten during the majority of their sustained vibration.

That said, the BFTS is an interesting idea, and inharmonicity is a very real and important phenomenon to deal with in the case of, say, pianos. Pianos also cover twice the octaves and have around 240ish more strings than guitars, making variations in overtone overlay a far bigger issue. Besides, cowboy chords don't sound as good with the BF corrections, most of which affect the first 3-5 frets

No, I know. I put that link in by mistake. Its been corrected to the PDF user manual of the tuner. I had a couple search pages up when I posted that and I copied the wrong link.

 

[SoundSpiral]

It depends on the situation.

example:
When recording doom metal with lots of sustained notes I tune so that the sustained note is perfectly in tune.
When recording death metal I tune so that the attack is in tune
I may tune differently depending on the part of the song.

This is very important if the band has keyboards.

And remember to constantly listen the tuning. What the tuner says doesn't matter if it sounds out of tune.

 

[Apsu]

And remember to constantly listen the tuning. What the tuner says doesn't matter if it sounds out of tune.

+1 to this, absolutely

 

[Apsu]

No, I know. I put that link in by mistake. Its been corrected to the PDF user manual of the tuner. I had a couple search pages up when I posted that and I copied the wrong link.

Ok, checked the tuning tips in the new link out. I agree with all of them insofar as their accuracy. Still doesn't support the idea that your notes will continue to fall flat as the string rings, just that there's a pitch difference which accompanies the initial dynamic difference. Still, good specifics on tuning practices, helpful for the less 'attuned'

 

[OctoberRust]

Unfortauntely, reading all your (different) post it seems to me that there is not the one way to solve those kind of issues. I'd still be interested in what the other forumites have to add, though!

 

[Full_Tilt]

I always thought the chorusing effect of guitars and bass bobbing in and out of perfect tune was part and parcel of the mayhem we associate with aggressive metal . If it gets too pronounced then that normally means the string gauge is too light for that particular tuning .
Other wise I cant see what difference it makes as what you gain from one tuning technique doesn't benefit all string velocities any more than any other .
We would have to re tune before each velocity change and hope all notes were the same length . And how many riffs are like that?
The comment about always tuning up to the note was quite a handy tip though.

 

[Wolfeman]

This may sound weird, but I always tune at the fifth fret. I'll try to explain why. The intonation up and down the fret board is never perfect. When you do the intonation on the guitar, you get the open note to match up with the 12th fret(I suppose it would be proper to say the harmonic of the open note is in perfect tune with the open note). But even when you do this, the notes in between those frets won't perfectly match up on all the strings. So I tune them all at the 5th, to kind of 'average out' the discrepancies. Chords tend to sound more even doing it this way. An Earvana nut tries to compensate for this, but only really helps with the first 2 or 3 frets.

Oh and to keep it on topic with the original post, when you tune further down the fret board, the notes don't go sharp to flat as bad, so it's easier to work with.

Totally my own method though... Works great for me.

 

[Dogman]

Well Wolfemans findings kind of resemble my own experience. A country player once advised me to tune to notes fretted at the third or second (on the g string) fret. Thus your typical "campfire"-open chords should sound more in tune. And what can I say - worked for me. I now also use this method for tuning up when recording powerchord/metal stuff. And - getting back to the original topic - I tune to the sustaining note, not the initial attack, YMMV.