I can't listen to modern metal productions anymore / Compression and Loudness ...

[smy1]

Rant Alert!

Two days ago I tried listening to "The Blackening" by Machine Head. I could not finish the 2nd track. I tried listening to some other CDs that I bought in the past 1,5 years and they all annoy the hell out of me.

I then put in "Foul Taste Of Freedom" by Pro-Pain or Rage Against The Machine's first and third album or as a comparison Machine Head's "The More Things Change" and I had no problem listening to these records at all. RATM was playing ALL day over and over ...

Whenever someone has been talking about the loudness wars and the psychological effect on the enjoyment of music, I kinda acknowledged it but did not really care for it. I also always had two limiters in a row on my mixbus.

When I was writing my upcoming album and listened to the demos, they really annoyed the hell out of me. I did not like my own tracks anymore, kept skipping to the next and generally did not want to listen to them. This radically changed when I came to the mixing stage and mixed everything without a limiter on the mixbus. From one day to the next, I suddenly liked my songs again.

Same thing with mastering: when I got the album back from mastering, it had a pretty reduced dynamic range and I did not like the sound at all. Sent it back and had it mastered a lot more dynamically. Now it is not even as loud as the RATM debut album from 1992, but it sounds really f**kin good ...

The DJ/Club mixes I am doing are all super-limited to be very loud on the dancefloor, but compared to the album they sound terrible.

Am I just an old fart who simply prefers music from his youth (Pro-Pain, RATM, older Machine Head) or are you guys noticing this too?? I mean, "The Blackening" really annoyed me and made me aggressive (and not in the *good* way).

Any observations?

P.S.: My girlfriend said yesterday that she has NEVER thought about records being louder and softer than others ... I guess 99,9999% of all music listeners are like that ...

 

[Limak]

I got the same man, and considering im just about to hit 20 then it's propably not because you're ,,an old fart,,. To me most of the modern albums tracks are, how to say that, exhausting to my ears(head?). Hard to describe, it's not like typical ear fatigue you get after listening to closed phones for 30 min but rather ,,i don't want to hear this anymore, I like the song but it's not bearable to listen to more than once,,. I agree, I can listen to Porcupine Tree or older Machine Head without having this ,,fatigue,, feeling. And although I love songs on The Blackening I feel kinda exhausted at the end of it. Man it's hard to describe, this ,,exhaustion,, feeling but it's there.

 

[Andy Sneap]

I agree, that Blackening mastering is a particularly poor bit of mastering. I try and keep all mine to a sensible level and have been accused of being a little quiet but you can only go so far, and like you say with radio compression and the limiters on PAs its only going to get compressed again in places like that.

 

[26]

I could not agree more.
For some people with "trained" ears this is just torture pure.
Some time ago I came up with the thought that if industry demands this level of loudness, a limited edition for people who like to listen to details would be nice.
Utopia :zombie:

 

[sparkyness]

Can't say I disagree. Ear fatigue kicks in pretty quickly with me on most modern metal stuff. 90% of the stuff I listen to these days is 10-15 years old.

Could just be a taste thing for me at this point in time but I would consider myself an old fart though...

 

[Tommy Gun]

Yeah... too loud definitely DOES NOT mean you are too old, in this case. I think a perfect example is Megadeth's United Abominations record. It is noticeably quieter than everything else coming out lately, but it sounds SOOO good. It's got a smooth-as-glass sound to it, but has plenty of hard-hitting punch and lots of dynamics. Also, Testament's The Gathering is another example. It's a little louder than some, but still really held on to the the dynamics, and I think that's the important part.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

I usually don't mind super loud shit.
There are a few exceptions though..
The only discs I can't handle are Finntroll's latest album, that Chimaira album is pretty loud, and like Symphony X's last album was hard to swallow.

 

[-J-]

I'm pretty sure I don't listen to the blackening because to me it sounds like a bunch of riffs thrown together to form way-too-long songs as opposed to the production, but you're right. I listen to Burn My Eyes all the time, but my ears aren't good enough to tell if that album was much "quieter."

 

[ArtGarceau]

It's really a two-way street...not necessarily the MEs fault. I've had mixes sent to me that were compressed to all hell and peaking at 0dbfs and they wanted it to sound louder. :zombie: I've also received mixes that sounded great with a beautiful dynamic range and the artists were willing to comprise that integrity because they wanted a loud album.uke:

Nine times out of 10 the client wants to sacrifice the quality of their audio for sheer volume. Most will be listening to 128kbps MP3s on their iPod or Myspace page anyway so quality doesn't matter much to them to begin with. My job is then to make it loud without doing enough damage to keep threads like this from popping up about me.

My favorite clients are the ones like yourselves who want a great sounding album, and understand that loud and good don't always belong in the same sentence. When you eliminate dynamic range you take away the emotional impact of a song. RATM was the perfect example. They've got passages in their songs that get so quiet that you have to ride the volume knob on your radio and then the music slams in so hard that you are on the edge of your seat. Listen to the song "Tire Me" or "Freedom" and you'll hear what I mean.

 

[Metaltastic]

See, that last paragraph is where I've gotta disagree with you Art - a perfect example of how I DON'T like noticable dynamics is on Ziltoid the Omniscient, specifically the end of "Solar Winds" and the middle of "Color Your World," where it gets noticably softer and just makes me bored and "tense" cuz the lack of intensity in contrast to the other parts, I dunno - it just makes me uncomfortable, maybe cuz I have to strain to listen to it. I'm not saying I like my albums slammed to death, I'm just saying I want everything to be at pretty much the same average volume; a perfect example is Opeth albums, where I never have to change the volume despite it going from growling double-bass ridden death metal to arpeggiated acoustics and Mike's cooing voice. Man, that to me is perfection, and I get even more emotionally impacted from that because the contrast comes from the music itself, not the volume of it. So yeah, Opeth is my perfect example of how you can have contrast and an emotional roller coaster in a song without having to futz around endlessly with the volume knob

 

[ArtGarceau]

I can definitely see your point...especially in a metal tune. But...could you imagine listening to a classical piece that is treated how modern rock/metal is treated? If you take out the wide dynamic range you ruin the whole thing. The dynamic range of the composition is part of what creates the story the music is trying to tell. For example...during a time of suspense and tension you'll hear soft piccolo. If it was the same volume as the slam of all of the instruments that will soon follow it wouldn't have nearly the impact.

 

[Metaltastic]

Oh, of course, classical music is an entirely different can o' worms, to be sure (however, while I agree it should have dynamics, few things piss me off as much as riding in the car with my Dad when he's listening to some symphony, and having him turn up the volume in a soft section, even more because of the incessant road noise, and then constantly be late on the draw with turning it down when the next section suddenly gets SO FUCKING LOUD ARRGGHH Our car stereo has this volume leveling thing, but it doesn't do dick.)

 

[wishtheend]

I'm tired of super loud mixes. I'm mixing a lot quieter now. My CD player and Ipod have a volume knob for a reason. If I'm in the mood to for loud music, I'll crank that up. Just something about the quiet mixes sound much more open and detailed. Makes it more emersable. The super loud music tends to just be an assult where to listen to an album, I have to bear it.

 

[ArtGarceau]

I do think we need to back off on the loudness, and it should start with one of the culprits....metal bands! People = Shit on Slipknot's Iowa album comes to mind. That song is squashed to the point of distortion...and not the good stuff.

The acceptance of bad quality audio (the 128kbps MP3) was really the beginning of the end. I hope quality will comeback as disc storage gets cheaper, and the internet technologies much faster....when file sizes aren't a concern. I have my doubts because the millions of iPods sold and the amount of money made by iTunes and Napster proves that audio quality doesn't matter to listeners.

 

[ArtGarceau]

I'm tired of super loud mixes. I'm mixing a lot quieter now. My CD player and Ipod have a volume knob for a reason. If I'm in the mood to for loud music, I'll crank that up. Just something about the quiet mixes sound much more open and detailed. Makes it more emersable. The super loud music tends to just be an assult where to listen to an album, I have to bear it.

Agreed.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

I like Metal squashed to death.

I'll start worrying when I get a chamber music CD and THAT's squashed.

 

[Exocaster]

Metal is inherently un-dynamic music for the most part. I like hearing what little dynamics there are left in there. Overcompression kills transients and neuters drums.

 

[Djabthrash]

I'm pretty sure I don't listen to the blackening because to me it sounds like a bunch of riffs thrown together to form way-too-long songs

Totally agree

 

[Tommy Gun]

Actually, GOOD metal can be incredibly dynamic, and should be treated as such during the mixing and mastering process. That's why I mix music the way I want to hear it. MOST "musicians":Smug: (dudes in bands anyway) don't know shit about the difference between a good mix and a loud mix. So, generally, I don't give a band "what they want" so much as I try and give justice to the music.

 

[Damian B]

I usually don't mind super loud shit.
There are a few exceptions though..
The only discs I can't handle are Finntroll's latest album, that Chimaira album is pretty loud, and like Symphony X's last album was hard to swallow.

Finntroll's last album was SO limited I couldn't stand to listen to it!!! lol Belphegor's latest was pretty terrible too