I have a huge problem reaching anywhere near commercial volume.

[An_Ascent]

Any time I manage to get any of my mixes to commercial volume, the tracks peak excessively and it sounds terrible. I've tried limiters, compression, everything I've ever read and I've had so much trouble. Any tips?

 

[MindMunch]

Any tips?

Yes. Use the search.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/278894-getting-your-loudness.html

 

[RedDog]

Gotta love that thread.

 

[RaNk]

Get your mix sorted (frequency wise that is), any limiter/clipper can get fair loudness quite easily then (and still sounding good). It won't work at all when the mix is a mess, not any limiter can make up for that.

 

[ahjteam]

Having the same problem myself, I have noticed that usually excessive amount of low end takes so much headroom, that you can't get the mix to commercial level without distorting the mix.

 

[Firaxis]

i always find that unless i absolutely crush the bass, and sometimes the drums, that it's hard to reach high loudness.

Also, if the low mids of the guitars and bass are fighting for space it makes it more difficult as well. Rank is correct about balancing.

You could also try an EQ on the master bus and take out resonances with narrow Q factor before hitting the comps and limiter.

 

[-Noodles-]

If you really want your track loud, PM me and I'll pass details onto a friend of mine who masters for a well known electronic label.

He can get your track up to -3dB RMS FS with MASSIVE amounts of bass and clear top end. I know how he does it, and I can replicate it with similar results (but not consistently).

You'll just fuck up what music is left by ruining the dynamics, mind.

 

[Beneath_the_Bliss]

Having the same problem myself, I have noticed that usually excessive amount of low end takes so much headroom, that you can't get the mix to commercial level without distorting the mix.

from Pensado's Place =P

 

[gabriel g.]

guys treat your rooms and check your mixes with a multimeter to make sure the mix is balanced ....

 

[pikachu69]

He can get your track up to -3dB RMS FS with MASSIVE amounts of bass and clear top end.

I find that number impossible to believe, -3db rms will basically be a flat line with a slight wave to it. Even the LOUDEST metal mixes I can find today sits around -8dbrms to -7db and to be honest they sound like shit, full of distortion and to still have any bass left at that volume will be impossible. Please post a clip, I have to hear it to believe it, sorry.

Also once you have gone beyond crushing dynamics to get your loudness the only other way to get 'louder' sounding mixes is by taking advantage of the fletcher/munson curve.
Your ears DO NOT have a flat frequency response, we are most sensitive to mid range frequencies as those are the ones used by the human voice so this 'skill' our ears have of being able to hear mid frequencies stronger than bass or treble allows us to comunicate more effectively with each other and makes the human voice the most predominant sound our ears hear. (sorry for the poor explaination).
So to get your mix to appear louder, increase the mid range, which in turn, decreases the bass and trable frequencies. You only have to listen to a newer metal mix verses a metal mix from a few years back to really hear this in effect. The point is you cant have it both ways, crushingly loud and bassy as fuck. (compared to the bass content of a quiter mix when turned up to equal volume)

 

[kool98769]

I find that number impossible to believe, -3db rms will basically be a flat line with a slight wave to it. Even the LOUDEST metal mixes I can find today sits around -8dbrms to -7db and to be honest they sound like shit, full of distortion and to still have any bass left at that volume will be impossible. Please post a clip, I have to hear it to believe it, sorry.

Also once you have gone beyond crushing dynamics to get your loudness the only other way to get 'louder' sounding mixes is by taking advantage of the fletcher/munson curve.
Your ears DO NOT have a flat frequency response, we are most sensitive to mid range frequencies as those are the ones used by the human voice so this 'skill' our ears have of being able to hear mid frequencies stronger than bass or treble allows us to comunicate more effectively with each other and makes the human voice the most predominant sound our ears hear. (sorry for the poor explaination).
So to get your mix to appear louder, increase the mid range, which in turn, decreases the bass and trable frequencies. You only have to listen to a newer metal mix verses a metal mix from a few years back to really hear this in effect. The point is you cant have it both ways, crushingly loud and bassy as fuck. (compared to the bass content of a quiter mix when turned up to equal volume)

Key word in his statement was electronic label. If you've listened to skrillex, you know that shit is loud as hell, and has a ton of bass. Electronic music is a lot less dynamic than most other types of music. But hell, if someone get electronic music that high, other music wouldn't be too far off honestly.

 

[ahjteam]

from Pensado's Place =P

From Steven Slate actually. Here is the keypoints from the thread, I was testing how L2 works and then compared FG-X performs.

For reference I did the same test with Slate FG-X with seemingly same settings (dither off, comp off, Gain +5.9dB), and I also noticed immidiately why I don't like.

It causes distortion, and when I was using it on musical context, it was really audible.

Upload a music mix (with headroom) that needs loudnessizing. I'll make a master with FG-X, and you make a master with L2. My master will have no undesirable distortion. And it will sound more like the original mix than the one you used with the L2.

Wow that was a pretty arrogant and smug thing to say... but I've got the gloves on and I'm willing to go 12 rounds, so lets do this

Hi Slate,

I accept your challenge, I bounced a short 38 second clip without anything, with L2+L3LL ultramaximizer and with my settings of FG-X.

FG-X:
-9.2dB RMS, and I hear audible distortion either on the kick or some other element with other ITP settings. Reason most likely _IS_ in non-optimal settings

So first off, the mix had to be somewhat heavily fixed with some equalization. Here is the unmastered mix with some filters to correct problems, mostly in the low mids and deep lows

On my example, and to my ears.. the FG-X added no further audible distortion, and kept the master extremely close the original, especially given that I added 9db of gain.
But, the FG-X algos are less forgiving than typical limiters on mixes with unbalanced frequencies.

mind if I ask you what kind of eq settings did you use before the FG-X and did you use automation or is it just some static settings? I can hear that you dropped relatively quite a lot everything below ~300hz and the guitars became more focused so I think you did something to the 1-8khz region and it seems that you even might've boosted the high shelf just a bit, but the snare didn't seem to come out too much so I guess you might have even used some M/S processing?

ahjteam.. while the session isn't in front of me.. I recall that I used a wide filter to duck out some 150Hz.. then put a general low shelf to drop everything under 100Hz about 1.5 db. Then a little bump somewhere in the upper mids to bring a tad more clarity. Then FG-X as stated previously. Its actually a nice mix, just need to check the low end response in your room.. you obviously know what you are doing but it's possible either your monitors or room might need some tweaking.. Do you have a sub?

Thanks.

Yes, I have sub; I use Genelec 8030A's + a 250W 8" sub that I have behind an aux send on my mixer. The problem is most likely my room (lacks room treatment as I'm not allowed to puncture the walls to hang room treatment) and also the sub placement as when I go one step to the right I hear the subs like almost 10dB louder.

I tried using the Room EQ Wizard to analyze my room response, but it failed to work on my mac.

That graph makes PERFECT sense! You have a big drop starting at 150Hz and going quite down in the sub lows.. which is why you have compensated for this in your mix.

And after that, I have been trying to mix the low end with my headphones and in general have less low end in my mixes before hitting the limiter.

 

[AEL89]

If you really want your track loud, PM me and I'll pass details onto a friend of mine who masters for a well known electronic label.

He can get your track up to -3dB RMS FS with MASSIVE amounts of bass and clear top end. I know how he does it, and I can replicate it with similar results (but not consistently).

You'll just fuck up what music is left by ruining the dynamics, mind.

No

 

[Fandus]

I get to commercial levels by compressing, clipping and/or limiting every track individually. By dealing with peaks on a track to track basis and then hitting the master bus comp less, I think you get there a lot easier.

 

[guitarguru777]

Its all perceived volume anyway .... mix with your ears not your eyes.

 

[-Noodles-]

I'm glad that at least one person read my post and understood those little squiggles that make up words.
I've had a few PMs calling bullshit so I'll try and get some samples for you guys from my friend - but it's not a competition.

It's all a matter of understanding the science of audio to get it loud.
Making it sound good? That's the art.