How do I get my masters to be as loud as commercial level music?

[jval]

The best thing you could do is spend a little money and send it to a real mastering engineer.
Look at who's doing the loud records you're referencing, and send it to them. It's probably not as expensive as you think.

 

[Daybreak]

The best thing you could do is spend a little money and send it to a real mastering engineer.
Look at who's doing the loud records you're referencing, and send it to them. It's probably not as expensive as you think.

Don't wanna be rude, but that was pretty irrelevant. It's like if someone said "Please teach me to cook" and you would respond "go to a resturant LOL".

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Don't wanna be rude, but that was pretty irrelevant. It's like if someone said "Please teach me to cook" and you would respond "go to a resturant LOL".

Attend the session..?

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Don't wanna be rude, but that was pretty irrelevant. It's like if someone said "Please teach me to cook" and you would respond "go to a resturant LOL".

All adivces are useful if you just want a loud mix but of course mastering is a lot more than putting compressors and limiters in master bus and even putting compressors and limiters require how to use of the parameters of the mastering tools. If you dont know how threshold/ratio, attack/release works very well, you can achieve a loud mix but probably a weak loud mix pumping here and there.

My adivce is, read a lot, I mean books about the subject. Bob katz book comes to my mind.

 

[Triscore]

All adivces are useful if you just want a loud mix but of course mastering is a lot more than putting compressors and limiters in master bus and even putting compressors and limiters require how to use of the parameters of the mastering tools. If you dont know how threshold/ratio, attack/release works very well, you can achieve a loud mix but probably a weak loud mix pumping here and there.

My adivce is, read a lot, I mean books about the subject. Bob katz book comes to my mind.

Nuno's said and a good mix = Done.

 

[rebelready]

Controlling/balancing the bass end and mud(I recommend a multiband compressor) seems to be the most effective for me.
Having your recording/mix levels around -20 to -10 dbfs helps a lot too. After you do all this, you can make your mixes
extremely loud later on during mastering if you'd like to or not.

 

[Wishx]

Reverse Maximize the mix-> print -> reverse the print = done. Boom!

 

[3tuxedo]

So much confuse^

 

[blue_fAng]

Reverse Maximize the mix-> print -> reverse the print = done. Boom!

I'd check that out but:

1. Not sure what reverse maximizing is.
2. My printer is running out of ink.
3. Are you Tad Donley?

 

[FrankTheSmith]

Almost every "commercially" produced song I've used to reference is between -7db and -5db RMS. I know it's possible to get a good sounding mix that loud so that's what I shoot for.

 

[smy1]

I'd check that out but:

1. Not sure what reverse maximizing is.
2. My printer is running out of ink.
3. Are you Tad Donley?

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Almost every "commercially" produced song I've used to reference is between -7db and -5db RMS. I know it's possible to get a good sounding mix that loud so that's what I shoot for.

That rises the question, to me atleast, how much better the mixes would have been without the compromises to achieve loudness.

 

[Wishx]

I'd check that out but:

1. Not sure what reverse maximizing is.
2. My printer is running out of ink.
3. Are you Tad Donley?

hahaha, I don't know who Tad is?

I mean reversing the mix, then pushing it to the master chain.

edit: that creates almost a ''look Ahead'' function*

 

[smy1]

Wishx: ohhh, you mean like reverse mixing (as per Stav)?

 

[Wishx]

Wishx: ohhh, you mean like reverse mixing (as per Stav)?

Yes spot on!

 

[smy1]

Wishx: That's a great idea. I must try that! How would you describe the difference in the end result between regular loudness maximization and reverse maximization?

Everyone:

The idea comes from Mike Stavrou's book "Mixing With Your Mind", where Stav explains a technique where he lets the multitrack tape run in reverse and mixes the song backwards. He says that due to the fact that you don't focus on attack of the transients but on the sustain of the note, you get a more exciting/popping mix. I never tried it so far although it sounds very logical (and his book is awesome all the way through).

Reverse loudness maximization means: reverse the stereo WAV file of your mix so that it runs backwards -> send it to your mastering chain -> get your loudness -> print it to another stereo WAV file -> reverse that new WAV file again.

I haven't tried it either but it makes sense.

 

[Wishx]

Wishx: That's a great idea. I must try that! How would you describe the difference in the end result between regular loudness maximization and reverse maximization?

Everyone:

The idea comes from Mike Stavrou's book "Mixing With Your Mind", where Stav explains a technique where he lets the multitrack tape run in reverse and mixes the song backwards. He says that due to the fact that you don't focus on attack of the transients but on the sustain of the note, you get a more exciting/popping mix. I never tried it so far although it sounds very logical (and his book is awesome all the way through).

Reverse loudness maximization means: reverse the stereo WAV file of your mix so that it runs backwards -> send it to your mastering chain -> get your loudness -> print it to another stereo WAV file -> reverse that new WAV file again.

I haven't tried it either but it makes sense.

Well the results are smooth and trasparent (and if used with a bit of tape more punchy), also with this technique you can squish a couple more rms without destroying it, wich if you tried the same settings on the forward version would be the case Well its not my go to thing reversing things all the time, but if I have a great sounding mastering compressor like lets say API 2500 but still cant really get it act musicly reverse compression usually does the trick. Now on subject, for someone trying to get those extra rms without doing too much harm, can't think of an easier way... also note that tape (if you use any) when pushed hard with trasients (forward), tends to distort on the transients and actualy makes you loose punch. by doing it backwars you also gain punch because your greating a tape with lookahead.

ps: Stav is gold
edit: ps2: but like with any book, its the consept that matters not the details.

cheerz

 

[Klosure]

Its worth me mentioning this...

If you are not getting as close, do you know how to use compression? Not just on the master bus but through the mix.

Theres an old saying, ..... if everything is loud nothing is loud. Learning how the make the drums fold into the mix and just poke through whilst still retaining the image of size whilst enveloped in guitars, how to give the bass a strong place, and yet retaining all the area about for vocals.

Some of this is about pinning stuff into place.


Here is a tip, if you have waves PAZ loo at a mix from 180hz down and look at yours (use it in RMS mode). How flat is it compaired to yours?


These are a few things, but they can help kickstart you into exploring by yourself.

 

[maxcor]

Hello,
First, try your best possible mix. You got 90 percent done. The secret of a good mastering is a good mix. The possible loudness of a song is written in the DNA of the mix. I'm comparing your level with, say, Death-Crystal Mountain: I appreciate a minimal difference. Maybe I would mix again and would turn down the voice a bit. Is overshadowing the entire rhythm section.
Ah! if you want I can master your song, I will not charge.