I have a new mix for review and suggestions!

My friend is trying to figure out metal mixing and stuff so we're trying some stuff out. He took some suggestions and stuff and tried them out and got this.

This is an all natural kit, no MIDI or triggers. The bass drum playing is a little iffy at times, but this is a test. We recorded in a church so theres a lot of natural reverb and that might of not worked out for the best for this recording. Our recording guy used Sonar and some nice mics that I don't have all the names for. SM57s on the toms and the snare, Beta 91's on the bass drum with a reverse wired sub-woofer as well, and I'm unsure of the overheads.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on it, and any suggestions or anything to make it better, and perhaps a walkthrough of how to make it better? Like boosing specific frequencies, etc.

My beef with this version is the reverb on the bass drum. I think there needs to be a touch less on the snare as well.

We can seem to get the toms to sound better than they do now. They might not of had a tuning that would work for metal, but if anyone has any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated!

On headphones, it sounds like the reverb is too much, like you said. Other than that, the toms sound kinda weak (not hit hard?) and distant, as does all the cymbals, except for the high hat. The stereo spread is cool, but almost seems like it's working against you instead of for you. The spread is so wide that it seems like I notice the gaps in the field in a depth sense when doing fills as much as I do the spread, if that makes sense.
Yeah, someone suggested a little reverb on the last version because it sounded too dry, and another said it sounded like MIDI. I wonder if the room had enough reverb (we were in a big church room which...turned out to be a bad idea) or if he just used too much reverb.

From my understanding you dont really wanna put reverb on a kick drum.

So for the spread, should the toms stay where they're at and the cymbals move closer in? We were trying to figure out how to get that huge set sound (and he does hav a big set) but if the stereo setup is working against us...Do you think we should just move it in just a touch and that would help it? When we redo this this coming summer we're going to try andy's method of 2 cymbals to 1 mic. For this we just used two overheads and we're not getting the clarity and attack that we wanted.

We cant figure out the toms because our guy hits them hard. We think its a mixture of mic placement, tuning of them, and the room. The sound had a lot of area to escape so the mic didnt pick up the bass well...thats just my thinking but what do I know? lol
Repost of a response in another thread so we dont hijack it XD

006 -
"It sounds a lot like the quick mix I usually get for tracking bands.

What I usually do here is we have a Mackie 32x8 analog console. And I'll have the drums coming in on like 1-12, or whatever, I mic everything:

Top snare, bottom snare, toms, kick, hat (pencil condensor), ride (pencil condensor), and then I will mic every cymbal with a condensor. Two room condensors, and then a dynamic in front of the kick drum, but like 2 feet back, like a Beta52 or something that will catch some woomph (acts kinda like a subkick in a way). What I do with those is I do the real compression on the drums before it hits the DAW that way everything is leveled out. Then I do like a quick EQ on the drums using the board, just to notch out the toms to make them slap, and get some of the bad mids from the snare, make the kick clicky, roll off all of the overheads, and then I setup the panning. Then I let him track. I don't do the serious mixing/eq'ing until we get ready for bass guitar.

Those drums sound like my quick mix, only my kick drum is usually a lot fatter and has a better click to it. The cymbals, hats, and snare sound almost identical to how I do it at first. Not bad, it's a great starting point, seriously. I never have problems getting the sound I want once it's at that point.


Me -
"so how do we get the cymbals and everything else to sound better? lol. We're gonna try those methods out when we retrack things this summer, but right now we're trying to do what we can with what we have.

And it sounds like your method is mixing as you go sort of...we didnt mix it that much before hand, we're doing it after the fact..."
"Well, I get the basic sounds from the beginning. I don't just mic everything up and say "go!". I make sure everything is leveled out with a compressor, that way I get no clipping whatsoever. And I get a basic eq on the board so that it records that eq'ed sound. But then I go in and get all surgical with the eq'ing after it's recorded. So I kind of do a lazy eq at first. Heh.

The cymbals sound fine eq wise, you could always compress them to make them all even that way you don't have one jump out at you when the drummer uses it.

I'm going to add the other part that I said in our AIM conversation:

I had told GG that I don't take too much out on the board that way when I go to seriously eq the tracks, it's not missing something that I am wanting to boost. Such as, say I scoop a certain mid frequency out of the kick drum on the board for tracking, well it gets recorded like that. So when I go to mix it, and I need just a little bit of that back, it's not there. I have learned over my years the art of holding back certain things that I will *want* to just do. Like taking that frequency out of the kick for tracking just so it sounds like I want it to right away. I've done that a few times back when I was still learning, and every time I wish I hadn't done it. I was always grabbing for that notch that wasn't there. So I learned to just make it half-way there, so to speak. Once guitars and bass and vocals were laid down, then I could go nuts with plug-ins and not worry about it.