I have given up on Iced Earth

[edgeofthorns]

But that wasn't a change between the Matt and the Tim eras.

I suspect it's a bit of all of the above. I think Tim exposed Iced Earth to a larger audience (the Judas Priest crowd). I'd also attribute the increased sales to the move from CM to SPV, and consequent airplay on MTV. I'd probably rank the lyrics near the bottom.

Zod

I tend to think the subject matter made more of a difference than you're giving it credit for. I feel like the lyrics made it a little more accessible to a wider audience as oposed to the apocalyptic subject matter that Iced Earth is known for. Also, it might have helped SPV out as far as marketing is concerned. I'm curious to see if this new one sales as well.

~Brian~

 

[Mustang]

I have yet to hear the new track(Where can i?). But TGB was my favorite Iced Earth album to date. Sure it was much differnt than their previous works. However I'm a huge fan of the concept and felt ripper did great with it.

Also,
folks even if you like Barlow's voice better( which I personally don't). Keep in mind he made a choice to leave at the time he did.

 

[General Zod]

I tend to think the subject matter made more of a difference than you're giving it credit for. I feel like the lyrics made it a little more accessible to a wider audience as oposed to the apocalyptic subject matter that Iced Earth is known for.

To suggest that, suggests there were people who were familiar with Iced Earth, but who weren't buying their CDs because they didn't approve of their lyrics. I doubt that's true. In the end, you're not going to listen to Iced Earth unless you're a Metal fan. And I don't know too many Metal fans who wouldn't buy a CD because the lyrical content dealt with horror movies. That's fairly innocuous by Metal standards.

Zod

 

[Dark One]

But that wasn't a change between the Matt and the Tim eras.

Oh yeah, if that's what you meant, then sure. I saw it as more of a blanket statement.

 

[Magius]

I tend to think the subject matter made more of a difference than you're giving it credit for. I feel like the lyrics made it a little more accessible to a wider audience as oposed to the apocalyptic subject matter that Iced Earth is known for. Also, it might have helped SPV out as far as marketing is concerned. I'm curious to see if this new one sales as well.

~Brian~

Most people I know that listen to Metal don't spend a whole lot of time looking for it. When I talk about bands like Iced Earth I usually get semi-intersted nods suggesting they "might check that out." When Ripper joined the band then they came to me to talk about Iced Earth, because the band was suddenly on the radar.

The name recognition Ripper brought with him combined with a better label is what boosted Iced Earth stock. Interstingly though is that while the Civil War is still a hot subject to Georgians the lyrics aren't what caused the excitement.

 

[edgeofthorns]

To suggest that, suggests there were people who were familiar with Iced Earth, but who weren't buying their CDs because they didn't approve of their lyrics.
Zod

No, I don't think I'm making myself clear. I just think due to the band covering some different subject matter, which happens to be a big interest to Jon, it made the TGB a little easier to identify with. I think the whole timing of the thing helped, because TGB wasn't released too long after 911. I'm more or less speaking for those people that might not have listened to the band before, unlike most of us. You have to admit, there were several benefit shows for the victims at that time, etc. Basically, I think the subject matter and timing of the release helped sales or at least didn't hurt it any at the time.

~Brian~

 

[edgeofthorns]

The name recognition Ripper brought with him combined with a better label is what boosted Iced Earth stock. Interstingly though is that while the Civil War is still a hot subject to Georgians the lyrics aren't what caused the excitement.

For some reason I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that Ripper has helped boost recognition to the band more so than anything else. The Civil War isn't entirely what The Glorius Burden is all about though. It touched on military leaders throughout history, 911, and an overall sense of patriotism. Like I stated before, that's just not your normal run of the mill metal lyrics. I do think the overall subject matter help boost sales to a wider audience.

~Brian~

 

[Jibrille]

It was a bit "pro" war. Haven't you learned that only anti-war songs boost people to a wider audience and gain you radio play?

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

For some reason I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that Ripper has helped boost recognition to the band more so than anything else. The Civil War isn't entirely what The Glorius Burden is all about though. It touched on military leaders throughout history, 911, and an overall sense of patriotism. Like I stated before, that's just not your normal run of the mill metal lyrics. I do think the overall subject matter help boost sales to a wider audience.

~Brian~

This applies to my father. He is a huge history buff particularly civil war stuff so I let him take TGB to work and loved it. He preferred the more mid tempo songs since he isnt a metal head but an old school rock n' roller.

 

[Jibrille]

I'll also less sarcasticly add that I was talking with a coworker the other day who's also a bit of a metalhead from the 80s. I asked him if he knew of Iced Earth, which he said only in name. I wanted to tell him about Barlow joining Pyramaze. Instead I told him that Ripper was now in Iced Earth and he's a big Judas Priest fan so he's going to start checking out Iced Earth. I'm not quite sure how you can pass off Ripper joining as having nothing to do with the rise in popularity.

 

[Magius]

For some reason I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that Ripper has helped boost recognition to the band more so than anything else. The Civil War isn't entirely what The Glorius Burden is all about though. It touched on military leaders throughout history, 911, and an overall sense of patriotism. Like I stated before, that's just not your normal run of the mill metal lyrics. I do think the overall subject matter help boost sales to a wider audience.

~Brian~

I think you're vastly over estimating the underground scene. Everyone on this forum knows who bands like Iced Earth, Brainstorm, and Symphony X are, but they're almost completely unkown outside of a very limited circle. As talented as these bands are they're completely overshadowed in the US by mainstream artists.

ProgPowerUSA is THE premier event for these kinds of bands in the US, and I don't think anyone would dispute that. Yet Glenn worries every year about selling only 800 general admission seats, and last year actually didn't.

Band that headline ProgPower are playing to crowds of 50-200 people in bars on most US tours. And Symphony X who have been headliners at 3 ProgPowers were barely a footnote on Gigantour. I wish I had saved the shot I had of a Gigantour poster with the tiny little Symphony X logo down at the bottom.

It shouldn't be dificult to see that when the lead singer of Judas Priest- a legendary internationally renowned auditorium/arena playing multi platinum album selling band- joins a band of this tiny stature that band is going to receive a Hell of a lot of new exposure.

 

[Daybreaker]

My two cents if they matter.

New song is a great single. Pounding, catchy, and to the point. I'll bet a box of strawberry douche that the rest of the album will have a much bigger epic flair considering Jon is all stoked about releasing a double album.

The reworked trilogy, eh. The vocals don't ruin it for me, they're good but the guitar sounds more muffly than the original recording. It's a good bonus for people that buy the eight dollar, twenty minute single and wont be on the albums so my crying about it is pretty stupid.

 

[General Zod]

I just think due to the band covering some different subject matter, which happens to be a big interest to Jon, it made the TGB a little easier to identify with. I think the whole timing of the thing helped, because TGB wasn't released too long after 911.

But even if people bought it because they identified with the lyrics, why did they hear it? I suspect they heard it because because SPV put out where it could be heard. And even still, I don't suspect the lyrics were a big draw. Keep in mind, most people (admittedly) don't pay attention to lyrics. And even then, the one song that could have had the effect you're suggesting was "When the Eagle Cries". According to Jon, radio and MTV wouldn't touch this track (ironically) because of it's lyrical content.

Zod

 

[steelreign]

Everyone on this forum knows who bands like Iced Earth, Brainstorm, and Symphony X are, but they're almost completely unkown outside of a very limited circle. As talented as these bands are they're completely overshadowed in the US by mainstream artists.

There is no way you can overstate this fact. This is why bands like Iced Earth cause so little turmoil outside the underground circle with their personnel changes. The new single is good, not great. The album will have better songs than this one. People that give up on them based solely on this one song were never true fans in the first place.

 

[Braxil]

I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote, but I definitely disagree on the phrase I quoted above. The differences in the direction of the songwriting pre and post Burnt Offerings are quite huge IMO.

I agree, I'm glad someone else noticed this. While I do enjoy the Burnt Offerings-Something Wicked period the most, I've always missed the more epic storytelling of the early albums.

 

[Kenso]

The new single is good, not great. The album will have better songs than this one. People that give up on them based solely on this one song were never true fans in the first place.

yep

no one gave up on maiden when they got blaze up in there, and i personally thought blaze made some great music with maiden (although many dispute this). i think you can give up on iced earth after about 2 or 3 more crappy studio releases.

i think a more appropriate band to give up on would have been like, queensryche, although i still like most of their music as well.

you can give up on iced earth all you want, but why just give up on them when they have made all the awesome music they have made? even if they were to put out a crappy cd, which i dont think this one will end up being in the long run, it wouldnt over shadow all the other good ones they made. thats basically what is being said when people say "i give up on iced earth", your basically saying that this new materials crappyness overshadows the excellence of the old material.

thats just how i percieve it.

 

[Pellaz]

Keep in mind, most people (admittedly) don't pay attention to lyrics. And even then, the one song that could have had the effect you're suggesting was "When the Eagle Cries". According to Jon, radio and MTV wouldn't touch this track (ironically) because of it's lyrical content.

Well, certainly no Viacom outlet would (MTV, etc.)....

I did hear tracks from TGB on the MusicChoice metal channel (digital stereo channel on cable), but they're fairly unusual in their song choices and metal knowledge, both of which are unusually deep. Hell, they even supported ProgPower without being asked to.

 

[edgeofthorns]

It shouldn't be dificult to see that when the lead singer of Judas Priest- a legendary internationally renowned auditorium/arena playing multi platinum album selling band- joins a band of this tiny stature that band is going to receive a Hell of a lot of new exposure.

Well, did Judas Priest have that kind of stature when Ripper was with them or just when Halford is with them? See, I look at Ripper in the same light as I did Blaze Bailey. Those guys are just stand ins for me until the real deals wise up and go back to where they belong! Was Judas Priest really selling out arenas over here in the states when Ripper was with them? The way your talking it makes it sound like Rob Halford joined Iced Earth or something. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but that's just how I'm reading it.

~Brian~

 

[Rider of Theli]

yep

no one gave up on maiden when they got blaze up in there...

*raises hand*

um, I did.

in all honesty, I had given up on Maiden by the time 'Fear of the Dark' was released. In my mind, they had gone from an epic songwriting and performing band to someone who just wanted to get by on their name alone. The songs had become weak and watered down with too many choruses for my taste.

I still respected the band for their back catalog, and would always enjoy listening again and again to such great releases as Powerslave. But their great years were behind them.

Then they poorly attempted to carry on with Blaze. Nothing against his abilities as a singer, and I never saw them perform with him, but the 'X' album had one good song on it in my humble opinion. And don't ask me to name it because I can't. it was just that memorable.

So that's when I gave up entirely on Maiden.

When Bruce returned, I tried to get into Brave New World. I bought the cd. I listened to it - not once but several times. There were a couple of good tracks on there. But it just wasn't the same band any longer. So I gave up again.

Then A Matter of Life and Death was released. I saw the 'Breeg' video, and something caught my ear. There was something underlying there... a spark of the past. So I planned to pick up the cd, but Patrick beat me to it. And sure enough, AMoLaD brought me back to fully respect the band that I grew to know through the 80's and into the 90's.

Back to Iced Earth...

I still haven't heard this song that everyone is up in arms about. And I'm one of those fans who believes Burnt Offerings is their most powerful album (notice, I didn't say best-selling or greatest songwriting achievement) - and not because of who was singing, but because of who ALL was involved.
When the SWTWC album was released, I didn't care for the lead guitar work at all. I thought it sounded whiney compared to the earlier years with Shawver's bombastic abilities. But I got past it, got comfy with it, and nowadays I thoroughly enjoy the album.

In a band like Iced Earth, and in this day and age, people will come and people will go. I love Barlow's voice. I love Owens' voice. Schaffer will always write music to support the vocalists in the best way to achieve his vision. If you listen to Demons & Wizards, you'll see that.

I said - way back in 1991 - when I heard the Iced Earth self-titled debut while stationed in Germany in the U.S. Air Force, that this band would go places if they could find a singer who could actually sing. They had the songwriting talent and the musicianship. They just needed a singer.
The next album I thought was an improvement, but it still lacked something, though i wasn't sure what exactly. Then Burnt Offerings came along and blew my everloving mind. All the pieces of the puzzle were in place. It was then just a matter of time.

And now here we are - 15+ years later - and though Iced Earth may not be a household name, if you're into metal you know who they are. Here we are also on the verge of the most epic masterpiece that Jon could give us, and folks are already putting the cart before the horse, blasting him before we can take in the art that is Iced Earth.

If you've given up on this band already, at least be thankful for the music you've been able to hear for the past 15+ years. I was that way with Maiden when I 'gave up on them'.

NP: A Matter of Life and Death - Iron Maiden.

 

[Magius]

Well, did Judas Priest have that kind of stature when Ripper was with them or just when Halford is with them? See, I look at Ripper in the same light as I did Blaze Bailey. Those guys are just stand ins for me until the real deals wise up and go back to where they belong! Was Judas Priest really selling out arenas over here in the states when Ripper was with them? The way your talking it makes it sound like Rob Halford joined Iced Earth or something. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but that's just how I'm reading it.

~Brian~

They did not, but not because of Ripper. Every band in Metal lost stature in the 90's with the rise of Grunge. The only exception being Metallica who actually got bigger. So was Ripper the household name that Halford was? No. Was Ripper 100 times more known in the US than any singer to grace the stage of ProgPower or Matt Barlow? Easily. While Rob Halford didn't join Iced Earth, Judas Priest didn't fall off the face of the Earth when Ripper was with them either.

I think you're still over estimating how much recognition underground Metal bands have. When a band like Priest changes singers it makes a splash the music industry notices and it makes the US Metal press. If every band ever to play ProgPower dissolved today it would barely make a ripple in the US music industry. As passionate as you, I, or everyone on this board may be about this kind of music it's still a tiny subculture.

Take for example this Oklahoma thing. They're expecting 50,000 people to show up. This is a concert where no band playing has released new material in 10 years, and you have to camp out to attend. 50,000! Contrast that with how many bands Glenn signed up this year have had releases in at least the past year or two.

Look at Evergrey. Their DVD "A Night To Remember" was #1 on the Swedish charts, and they recreated it when they headlined ProgPower USA VII last year. All of which sounds impressive, but before they did that they were the opening act on a four band club tour. Dude, that is small.

As steelreign stated a couple of posts ago "There is no way you can overstate this fact. This is why bands like Iced Earth cause so little turmoil outside the underground circle with their personnel changes." And that is why ProgPower is an "Elite festival for an elite audience."