I know this isn't "Ultimate Pop Punk Forum" but check it...(5150 plus real drums)

[brianhood]

This is the first band I've ever recorded(just opened my studio a couple of weeks ago). While it's not my first choice of bands i would like to record style wise, i thought it was a lot of fun, and i'm happy with the way things are shaping up.

here is the recording of the same song the band did less than 4 months ago for $1500 at another studio somewhere around here(it was a 6 song ep).

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/536384/03 Track 3.wma


Here is the recording i'm in the process of doing right now for much much less than $1500(this is a very very rough mix).

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/536384/Shake n Bake 5150.mp3

UPDATED VERSION 1:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/536384/Shake n Bake 2 mp3.mp3

The thing i need you guys to help me out on is guitar tone. This was my first time EVER recording with a real amp and cab. Here is the guitar chain for the left side:
Gibson Les Paul>DI>Maxon OD9>5150II>bottom left speaker of Bogner 4X12Cab>sm57>Digi 003 Rack+ pre

the right side was the same except that the guitar was a Fender Telecaster with EMG's.

I also reamped with a Pod xt, and i thought it sounded great too. I prefer the 5150 tone personally, but i want to get everyone else's opinion. I'm afraid my judgment may be biased just because of it being a real amp vs a pod. I just want the best guitar tone possible on this thing since this is my first recording, regardless of whether its a real amp or a pod.

pod tone
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/536384/Shake n Bake POd.mp3

Pleeeasee give your input! (good or bad)

 

[brianhood]

sorry i posted this in the wrong section! I could have sworn i posted it in the rate my tone thread
feel free to move it brett or whoever. If i knew how i would =/

 

[paladin shredder]

yeah, the 5150 definitely beats the pod, but you may try blending the two tones together if you want. like the amps 100% hard panned and the pod tracks 80% panned apart at 1/2 the volume of the 5150. Also, I'd run the vocals though a vintage-type compression with really heavy settings.

btw, what sample did you use for the kick and snare? mind sharing?

 

[KeithTidd]

i actually like the pod more, the 5150 sounds super middy. Like in a cocked wah way. Overall i think it sounds very good.

 

[brianhood]

yeah, the 5150 definitely beats the pod, but you may try blending the two tones together if you want. like the amps 100% hard panned and the pod tracks 80% panned apart at 1/2 the volume of the 5150. Also, I'd run the vocals though a vintage-type compression with really heavy settings.

btw, what sample did you use for the kick and snare? mind sharing?

I tried blending the two, but there is a slight delay on the reamped pod tracks causing phasing issues or whatever. It's somewhere around 150 samples of delay, but i can't get the two tracks spot on enough to make it sound right.

I used slate samples on the drums. Kick 10z, snare 12A and Fat Toms.

 

[PostMortem1666]

I like the Pod more. Vocals are also a little loud. Snare sounds a little soft.

 

[Carax]

I like the Pod more. Vocals are also a little loud. Snare sounds a little soft.

agreed, pod is waaay better for me, the snare could be a little "stronger" ... but it sounds very good!

i also would turn up a bit the bass and do something with the vocals, maybe compression.

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah, prefer the Pod sound. Personally I would mix in a bit more of the natural drum sound... Drumming sounds a bit mechanical for pop punk. Sounds good though man, good work!

 

[Kazrog]

I prefer the 5150 tone, hands down. Boost around 3k or 4k on the 5150 guitars to get the stuff that most people are digging from the Pod tracks without having the Pod fizz.

Great mix overall, although I could use to hear a bit more drums (even +0.5db more would be great.)

 

[brianhood]

Thanks for the input guys. Keep it coming!
So i boosted at the 3k range a bit on the 5150 tracks, raised the drums in the mix a bit, and compressed the vocals even further. They went from -30 thresh with 15:1 compression(which seems like it would have been enough) to -40 thresh and 20:1 ratio. I had to mess with an expander/gate a lot to make everything sound natural after that much compression though(and i'm still not that happy with it).

I also messed with the mastering process(or pre mastering) all night(read some long guide on mastering lol). I'm sure i completely overdid everything in this process, but that's part of learning i guess.

here is the updated version

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/536384/Shake n Bake 2 mp3.mp3

feedback please!

 

[AdamWathan]

Definitely sounds better! I still think the drums sound really fake/programmed though...

 

[brianhood]

Definitely sounds better! I still think the drums sound really fake/programmed though...

That's because they are all replaced with slate samples. I used the term "real drums" loosely...as in not programmed.

 

[brianhood]

Bu the way, any chance of sharing the POD patch and further details of post processing? Thanks!

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/536384/Carridale tone.l6t

there ya go!

post processing was just a standard high and low pass with andy's C4 settings.

 

[AdamWathan]

That's because they are all replaced with slate samples. I used the term "real drums" loosely...as in not programmed.

Are the raw drum tracks completely unusable? I find even a "bad" raw drum sound sounds pretty good when blended with samples, better than just resampling the whole kit anyways... It sounds like the same sample being repeated over and over again, maybe it would sound more realistic with multisampled hits? The Slate packs have multiple hits of each drum don't they?

 

[brianhood]

Are the raw drum tracks completely unusable? I find even a "bad" raw drum sound sounds pretty good when blended with samples, better than just resampling the whole kit anyways... It sounds like the same sample being repeated over and over again, maybe it would sound more realistic with multisampled hits? The Slate packs have multiple hits of each drum don't they?

I triggered everything from the start to make it easier for drumagog, so that isnt an option.

it's definitely using multisamples though(slate comes with gog files). I'm pretty sure the limiter is smashing the whole song together so much that it makes the drums sound fake, because without the limiter it sounds pretty natural.

but like i said, this type of band isnt really my style as far as what i want to record. I'm use to metal stuff where mechanical sounding drums is more or less the norm.

 

[AdamWathan]

Cool man, well like I said it still sounds really good even with the more metal sounding drums. Good work dude!

 

[PostMortem1666]

5150 Guitars sound very nasally to me.

 

[VincentVegas]

Ya, your production is entirely too polished for this kind of music. Which isn't a bad thing in the big picture but unfortunately for a band like this, "polished" is not the way to go.

I recorded a traditional Mexican band once and fucking threw way too much thump in the grand ole style of metal and it was ridiculous in the end. Again I am not fucking with your overall production but those drums are entirely to systematic for the type of tune this is.

Obviously you have the chops but throwing metal production on an almost pop punk band is not a good way to go.

Good luck with this one!

 

[Machinated]

compressed the vocals even further. They went from -30 thresh with 15:1 compression(which seems like it would have been enough) to -40 thresh and 20:1 ratio. I had to mess with an expander/gate a lot to make everything sound natural after that much compression though(and i'm still not that happy with it).

What kind of attack and release did you have?

It all depends on the source, but I normally compress my vocals with a fast attack, and usually start with a medium release (changes depending on the music). If you start around here, you shouldn't need as high of a ratio and threshold (not to say that it will sound better or worse than what you have done). Give it a try though, getting the attack and release right makes such a huge difference.

Just gave the mix a listen, sounds pretty nice although I agree it may be a bit too metal sounding. Maybe try some of the more "rock" Slate sample's, and get a bit more room sound in there. Also more of a stylistic thing, but on the guitar parts where there are octaves being played - I would have tracked the left and right guitars playing the rhythm part, and then done another guitar track as an overdub panned down the middle playing the octaves.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Honestly I prefer the sound of the original $1500 recording but if I was in the band I'd prefer saving the $1500 and recording with you again next time.