Iknow its off topic but.....

[Grundig Avkom]

OK, I'm, sort of awake now...
It is officially largely a secularized country, relatively speaking. The numbers get somewhat skewed, though, since not everyone that "adheres" to a religion is a member of an organized group. A lot of people would say they "believe in God", but since their idea of what a god is doesn't match any given organized group, they also say they are "religious" but not necessarily "Sunni" or what have you. Then there are religions like asatru, where the idea of organizing as a group more or less is contra-indicated by the religion iteself. Again, one is then religious, but not necessarily belonging to a group. When I lived in Sweden in the late 80's the number of people who were active Christians was only 2%, but I can guarantee that that is a low number compared to how many people would actually call themselves Christian. They are brought up by Lutheran parents, and so have received a somewhat Lutheran, somewhat ON upbringing, which equals Swedish. They did not attend church, though, and the Social democrat party generally had about half the votes beck then (they did NOT find their principles on any faith governing the country, for sure, and so it would to some be impossible to say that you were Christian and still vote for them), so I suppose it depends on how you define "Christian". The numbers have changed a lot since the church separated from the state a while back, too. It then became more accepted to belong to a Christian denomination other than Lutheranism (which, when I was a kid, was reserved for "weird people" and "rebels"), which I think made it easier for those who once said they were Christian but who did not go to church because they didn't feel the Lutheran church fit them, to find a denomination that did. I would imagine that many people were born again as a result.

The Old Faith by its very structure is not one that shows up well in a census (sp?). As you may have noticed, I still struggle with what to call "it" when I post here. The ON did not have a word for their religion, and we still don't really, which names it very difficult to put it down on the form when you fill it out. Then we all end up using different names for the same faith, which fractures the statistic into bits and pieces, and the only way to settle that problem is to become organized, which, as I said, goes against the core of the faith itself to a certain degree. It's a catch 22, the same one asatru suffers from in Canada. Here, we fall under wicca, which just makes me cringe, but at least we are now an official religion. Then there's also the part where we do not have any dogma that says we are supposed to go out and convert non-believers to earn brownie points. This means that the religion is something we keep to ourselves, something between me and my gods only. On account of that, those that are of that faith, most often do not raise a stink at the schools etc when asatru is not taught, and we pass it on to our children, but we don't go Edda-thumping door to door. We just blend in, which is a very, very (I cannot emphacise how very) Scandinavian. We do not make a fuss over things. Another reason why all religions would be conspicuously abscent from a census, because it is not any of anybody else's bussiness, so we just don't as, don't tell. Kind of like that. This is also why many peolpe look donw on religious people, because this "door to door let's be loud about it and tell everybody what we believe and how to rule accordingly" is not something that is "normal" in the culture, even for Lutheranism (and for sure not for the Old Faith). Neither is loud prayers from the minaret. You can imagine how well that blends with Swedish culture.
Still, relatively speaking, in comparison to the rest of the world, it is a very much secularized country. It has a lot to do with the social democratic rule that the country was under for so many years, but also with the anture of the people itself and with the religions that are there besides from the judeo-christian ones.
Now you've just read the issue as seen from my frame of reference, though, which probably is not entirely un-skewed, considering my age, gender, political and religious stance, but it's the most un-biased I can accomplish.

Aye... very nice speech Tyra... i myself probably could not have gone through typing that entire thing without insulting christianity atleast 3 times in every sentence... i applaud you

 

[Tyra]

Thank you. I am glad someone noticed that, cuz that was hard.

 

[Grundig Avkom]

Thank you. I am glad someone noticed that, cuz that was hard.

you have my sympathy.... i am sure it was very hard not to do that heh....

 

[Ikki]

Aye... very nice speech Tyra... i myself probably could not have gone through typing that entire thing without insulting christianity atleast 3 times in every sentence... i applaud you

but xtianity is not the problem, original xtian words are pretty nice, i guess that the problemas arose pretty much with catholicism and other forms of understandig xtianism...i mean, you portray xtians in general as evil when xtians in general are nothing, because they are conform by so many different groups that actually gather them together in the same bag means nothing...
I live in a pretty much catholic country but i´m aware since my 7 than any religion in which you can pay the so called god speakerks for open gates to heaven is a big bullshit, but i now that this is because of catholicism, however they are true xtaians which dont believe in roman church and just follow the old principles of love, respect and so on are pretty nice people which do not try to convert anyone...

Do not consider myself, please, as in favour of xtianity, catholicism or any of those things, as i follow a pretty custom faith that would better fit into paganism. But the statement "blame the xtians" is a boring old song which actually suffers from the same problems blamed to it..

 

[Blodørn]

I allways have fun thinking about how the world would look like if Norway, Denmark and Sweden had not been "saved" from paganism. All the big seafaring nations like Spain, England and Belgium would most likely never colonized anything. ^^

 

[Bates]

Hehe, you'll find that a tough argument to sell, seeing as in many ways, England was made up of Norse/Germanic people. The problem was, and you can still see reflections of the same thing in more modern Scandinavian culture, they were quick to adapt to the lands they conquered, instead of the other way around. Most of eastern Britain was once part of the Danelaw, the Normans were Norse who conquered and then adopted Frankish/Roman ways and culture. And in the east, you had the Rus, who also conquered,then adopted Slavic ways and language.

But, dude, Belgium? I'm pretty sure the only thing Belgians ever colonised were breweries.

 

[Grundig Avkom]

but xtianity is not the problem, original xtian words are pretty nice, i guess that the problemas arose pretty much with catholicism and other forms of understandig xtianism...i mean, you portray xtians in general as evil when xtians in general are nothing, because they are conform by so many different groups that actually gather them together in the same bag means nothing...
I live in a pretty much catholic country but i´m aware since my 7 than any religion in which you can pay the so called god speakerks for open gates to heaven is a big bullshit, but i now that this is because of catholicism, however they are true xtaians which dont believe in roman church and just follow the old principles of love, respect and so on are pretty nice people which do not try to convert anyone...

Do not consider myself, please, as in favour of xtianity, catholicism or any of those things, as i follow a pretty custom faith that would better fit into paganism. But the statement "blame the xtians" is a boring old song which actually suffers from the same problems blamed to it..

i believe you just proved my point.... IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!! and christianity started off with catholicism from the get-go..... and really i didnt say that christians were evil.... only retarded and contradictive.. oh and lets not forget that these retarded bastards are the same people who had to kill my people by not meeting them on the field of battle... but instead by poisoning their waterwells.... in my eyes that makes MOST christians dishonorable cowards... so Ikki... dont even bother trying to sway my opinion.. you will find that trying to change how a Norseman thinks to be very difficult... if not completely impossible

 

[Blodørn]

But, dude, Belgium? I'm pretty sure the only thing Belgians ever colonised were breweries.

Kongo?

 

[Bates]

Bah, who would want to live in a freaking boiling pot like that, anyway?

 

[Grundig Avkom]

dont agree with this( for personal reasons)...Alzeimer makes impossible for you to connect your memories or your knowledges but they are still in there, you just cant access to them in a proper way[/QUOTE]

well Ikki.... if you cannot access any of your memories then they are of no use to you.. and therefore they are considered to be lost to you... so yes i agree to the fullest extent to what Tyra said

 

[Ikki]

dont agree with this( for personal reasons)...Alzeimer makes impossible for you to connect your memories or your knowledges but they are still in there, you just cant access to them in a proper way

well Ikki.... if you cannot access any of your memories then they are of no use to you.. and therefore they are considered to be lost to you... so yes i agree to the fullest extent to what Tyra said[/QUOTE]

it´s your opinion, and it´s ok. However, i think different, your memories are hidden in your brain and you cannot access to them properly, but sometimes something happens or something is said that make your brain works, at least partially, and you remember things, of course every alzheimer case is different and I´m just telling about me and my granny, i notice in her eyes when she knows what i´m talking about,although she cannot use her memories when she wants, but for me, they are not lost.

 

[Ikki]

i believe you just proved my point.... IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!! and christianity started off with catholicism from the get-go..... and really i didnt say that christians were evil.... only retarded and contradictive.. oh and lets not forget that these retarded bastards are the same people who had to kill my people by not meeting them on the field of battle... but instead by poisoning their waterwells.... in my eyes that makes MOST christians dishonorable cowards... so Ikki... dont even bother trying to sway my opinion.. you will find that trying to change how a Norseman thinks to be very difficult... if not completely impossible

I´m by any chance trying to change anyone´s opinion; i just said that not all and not most xtians are the same, luckily there are just few who are terrible selfish and dont follow their own statements, probably those dressed in long white robes are the worst, but those are not xtians, they just called themselves that( at least is what i think)

 

[Tyra]

Yeah, but Grundig is in Louisiana. Where he comes from, those are the Christians.

 

[Bates]

Yep, whereas I'm from liberal New England, where most of the old Puritan churches are now UU ones.
Religionklok
I finally found one that could tell me where a good bar is

 

[Grundig Avkom]

Yeah, but Grundig is in Louisiana. Where he comes from, those are the Christians.

yeah which annoys the hell out of me heh...... can't wait to get out of this shithole

 

[Ikki]

sorry to ask this, but i have never been in the states apart from Disney world when i was 10 and i guess that does not count...: are they true, those things that appear in tv of comunities being ultra conservatives, doing like apartheid to others and really thinking about marylin manson being evil and calling themselves like true xtians...and those stories about salt lake city???

 

[Pessimism]

Yeah, it's entirely true.

Which stories of Salt Lake City are you talking about though?

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, it's entirely true.

Which stories of Salt Lake City are you talking about though?

well, the thing about mormons( dont know if this is the right term) like an entirely city ruled by them where apparently you cant do "funny"(for me) things as everything must be follow their bible, and well, the fact is that nowadays we have in most spanish city couples of two guys or two girls, never girl&guy, dressed in a tremendously boring way, stopping lads on the street trying to convice them to be mormons in englishcised spanish, when everybody knows that in spani if you wanna anyone understanding you you have to clear say it in spanish as our skills with language are not very well developed..besides that they looks so terrible boring that i seriously doubt me or anyone else would join their "excitig group"...

 

[Bates]

Yeah, pretty much. In Kansas City, we have the "Community of Christ", also known as the Mormons who didn't make it to Utah. Always a fun time.

 

[Tyra]

...AND IN ABBOTSFORD, WE HAVE MENNONITES. Google that, and see what you think, Ikki. The gods know we wouldn't have parked our asses in this town unless we'd had to at the time, cuz the narrowmindedness of some of these people is unreal, and it is not the kind of community I wanted my kids to grow up in. Mormonism is nothing in comparison, trust me.

I remember Johan saying to me (paraphrased) "Tomorrow we're playing in Salt Lake City. That ought to be interesting. I hear they don't much like longbearded vikings there...". Afterwards, he said it was one of the best gigs on the tour. They're played some "interesting" venues over the last few years!