I'm ignorant, someone help.

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Fervisson

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Jun 10, 2002
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What's musical theory? How can you tell what time signatures are? I'm so stupid when it comes to technical music.

My favorite bands are Tool, Opeth, and Dream Theater and everyone says that they're very technical, but I don't see how people can enjoy bands like Converge, Dillinger Escape Plan, and Meshuggah. I know they're "technical gods" and what not, but I just don't hear it.

I want to learn so I can enjoy more music.

Thanks..
 
converge arent really that technical.

people like converge, DEP and meshuggah simply because they have different music tastes to you, not solely because they can appreciate their technicality.
 
What's musical theory? Uh, the theory of music? Heh I know that's not much help.

Get theory lessons, no one can tell you everything in one post :lol:
 
Originally posted by Fervisson
Converge, Dillinger Escape Plan, and Meshuggah. I know they're "technical gods" and what not, but I just don't hear it.
Click to expand...

I guess people like working out the odd time signatures...

A time signature tells you how many beats are in a bar, and what the quantity of the beat is. For example, the time signature 4/4 (written as two fours, one underneath the other) means that there are four crotchet beats in a bar. The four on top tells you the quantity of beats, and the bottom number tells you the quantity of each beat. Most pop is in 4/4.
Basically:

1=semibreve
2=minim
4=crotchet
8=quaver
16=semiquaver

etc.

So by looking at the time signature you can work it out.

Meshuggah have time singatures like 7/8 which gives the music a strange, irregular feel.

Then there are dotted beats, and each dot represents half the length of the note it follows, so if a dot was in front of a crotchet, it would mean a crotchet beat plus a quaver (which is half a crotchet). Which in effect is three beats.

Someone correct me if I have made any mistakes in what I am saying.

Hope this helps slightly, otherwise I'm just bullshitting:lol:
 
Everyone I've ever known that's liked Converge, DEI, and Meshuggah have liked them for their technicality, song structures, time signatures, or whatever. I'm not saying its terrible, its just I don't get it.

Do you have to play an instrument to understand everything? I play the drums but I'm terrible at them. I played clarinet and drums in band for 3 years, so I kind of remember about time signatures but...I want to understand.
 
I just like Tool because I like Tool. I don't know if they're technical or not.

People say the time signatures for the song Lateralus are like ...3...2.....987....85... No idea what that means but it sounds pretty impressive.
 
I've always wondered about the fuss about the"technical" bands as well. Of course it mostly depends on one's musical taste but I think when a musician appreciates a band that's "technical" it also has something to do with admiration, just like some tennis player will watch every game of his idol.
Btw I also used to dislike The Dillinger Escape Plan, but I saw them at a festival recently and they're not that bad - just, well, extreme. I also have a song from the new EP, it's called "When Good Dogs Do Bad Things" and it rocks!
 
Originally posted by Fervisson
I just like Tool because I like Tool. I don't know if they're technical or not.

People say the time signatures for the song Lateralus are like ...3...2.....987....85... No idea what that means but it sounds pretty impressive.
Click to expand...

Well I have studied some theory....and it may sound impressive, but its not. Dream theater....now thats impressive. Tool does VERY little of anything that could be considered technical.
 
Music theory is the study of the technical aspects of music. It basically defines and structures music through mathematics. How tones relate to each other, how chords and scales are constructed, what scales sound "best" over which chords. It defines rules which can be used to make interesting music, and which can be broken to make the music even more interesting.

Contrary to popular belief, Meshuggah never uses anything but 4/4 time, ever. They use complex polyrhythms that are played over common time to make it sound like they're playing in weird time signatures.

Theory is just a tool, not an end unto itself. Bands like Dream Theater, Tool, and Opeth implement theory to structure their music and make it more interesting, but it's how it sounds in the end that matters most. Bands like Dillenger Escape Plan and Spiral Architect use it as an end unto itself, basically saying "look what I can do!" That's why their music sucks.

You don't need to play an instrument to understand theory on a superficial level, but to really understand how it works, it's required. That way, when a book tells you to play minor scales over minor chords, you can play it and find out why instead of just accepting it.

Tool isn't technical in that their music is difficult to play, but it's extremely well composed and innovative, making excellent use of theory. Danny Carey's drums are especially interesting.

Anyway, that's enough ranting from me. Hope it helps.
 
Originally posted by Bezrael
Theory is just a tool, not an end unto itself. Bands like Dream Theater, Tool, and Opeth implement theory to structure their music and make it more interesting, but it's how it sounds in the end that matters most. Bands like Dillenger Escape Plan and Spiral Architect use it as an end unto itself, basically saying "look what I can do!" That's why their music sucks.



Tool isn't technical in that their music is difficult to play, but it's extremely well composed and innovative, making excellent use of theory. Danny Carey's drums are especially interesting.
Click to expand...

Dillinger not only uses Time as an aspect of their music, they are also very technical players. I dont see it as a "look what i can do" type of thing at all. Thats a big misunderstanding people have about technical players. People where I live think that about us, simply because we play technical music. It is kinda of a one sided veiw of things....im sure if dillinger wanted you to see what they could do, they could do much more complitcated stuff than they play out.

Yes, Danny Carey is an amazing drummer, but to me that is the only thing I really like about them. Besides Maynards (sp?) voice, he is a great vocalist. Someone told me that Danny's father was considered one of the best drummers in the world or something...is that true?
 
No .. anyway. I think Tool are one of those bands where you take any one member from them and you won't have tool anymore .. they aren't good because of Danny and Maynard ..Adam may be one of the most boring guitarist's in the world but what he's playing fits the music so that in itself is not boring ..
 
Originally posted by warsofwinter
No .. anyway. I think Tool are one of those bands where you take any one member from them and you won't have tool anymore .. they aren't good because of Danny and Maynard ..Adam may be one of the most boring guitarist's in the world but what he's playing fits the music so that in itself is not boring ..
Click to expand...

That's very true, even with the condescending manner. ;) Maynard's work with APC is still not Tool, even though I enjoy it very much.

Tool is not technical in the least. And neither is Opeth, really. They both seem pretty free with their music, and are not calculated or mathematical in their playing. They both are progressive and complicated, to varying extents. But technical is not accurate at all.

For Tool, Danny Carey is the only truly masterful musician in the band. His drumming is incredible and unique. On Lateralus, in particular, he really shows this.

But overall, Tool's music has a very unique feel which is why so many people are attached to them. There is no other band like Tool.

One final thing... Maynard's vocals are absolutely amazing. That guy could just do anything.

Some other bands are like this also, including some of my other favorites - Opeth and Smashing Pumpkins. ;)

Back to the other topic:
Bands like Dream Theater are certainly technical.

If you want a technical band you may like, check out Cynic!
 
tool is very technical.

schism, for instance, has the following beat patterns

5/8 + 7/8
6/8 + 7/8
6/8 + 3/8 + 3/4

and possibly more, i'm not sure.
 
"Intolerance", the first track on Undertow, starts off in 27/8. It's very Zappa-esque.

I think I jumped on DEI unfairly. I've really only heard a few songs, and that was my initial interpretation, but that's not really enough to make a complete judgement on their style.

I think we should define a difference between technical and compositionally intricate playing. Technical playing is playing something that requires a great deal of skill and is not easily performed. Compositionally intricate playing is songwriting that makes extensive use of theory and innovative songwriting techniques. I think Opeth is technical in addition to being extremely compositionally intricate and progressive. Some of those guitar parts are damned tricky! Aside from the drumming, Tool probably isn't all that technical, but they still rule!
 
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