Technicality or stupidity?

[Devildog11887]

Uh.. dude, Samoth's not in Nile, different continent. That would be Karl Sanders I believe. Furthermore, they are far from a black metal band. Blackened Death Metal MAYBE.

FUCK
sorrry, I meant Emperor.
I edited it
I agree, Nile is very far from Black Metal

 

[EVH316]

This thread has become very, very ordinary

 

[hibernal_dream]

I find it funny that people are saying Vai, Satriani, Petrucci have no talent. These guitarists are masters, their musical education extends beyond playing covers in the garage from tab. And they're certainly not interested in winning the attention of adolescent metalheads who think the passion in music comes from music is solos and playing in key. Nile and BTBAM should not even be on the same page as them.

 

[Devildog11887]

I find it funny that people are saying Vai, Satriani, Petrucci have no talent. These guitarists are masters, their musical education extends beyond playing covers in the garage from tab. And they're certainly not interested in winning the attention of adolescent metalheads who think the passion in music comes from music is solos and playing in key. Nile and BTBAM should not even be on the same page as them.

This thread is about technicality not talent.
I agree that they are talented and technical alone, but with a band as a whole their music isn't technical. Read the first post next time.

 

[hibernal_dream]

Technical as a band but not the musicians individually? How on earth is that possible? So by themselves the guitar, drums and bass of Golem are simple, yet somehow come together to form a technical piece of music? Ridiculous.

By the way, I was replying to this bit:

I expected to be dissagreed with but i must say that i am rather disappointed. The guitar wanker kings, being Petrucci, Vai, etc. are terrible because they heartlessly jack off their guitar necks in chromatic scales 13-14-15-16 all up and down the neck. It is passionless nonsense that gets hailed as technical but is simple and as i see it fucking stupid. Nile and Between the Buried and Me are successful technical because they are not capable of playing fast and heavy, but slowing things down every once and while, and incorporate good solid solos while staying in key. That's real talent, that's real technicality.

 

[EVH316]

I'm with you hibernal, some of the crap I've read on this page has been laughable.

 

[Devildog11887]

Technical as a band but not the musicians individually? How on earth is that possible? So by themselves the guitar, drums and bass of Golem are simple, yet somehow come together to form a technical piece of music? Ridiculous.

By the way, I was replying to this bit:

you have it bacwards. technical individualy, but not as a band

 

[Idunnonuten]

This thread has become very, very ordinary

I concur. this is not at all what i wanted to happen. Nobody has even responded to what the discusion was supposed to be about. How about someone actually list some technical bands instead of just namecalling like a bunch of fucking kids.

umm, Im not agreeing with you...

then what's your point? Do any of you have a fucking point?
I wanted to discuss bands that are overrated when it comes to technicality, or logically discuss bands that are technical (not just "Petrucci is a good guitarist and you suck "). Do any of you even bother to consider what someone else says, or are you all so worried about seeming like a "true" metalhead that if you don't know a band or don't have an opinion on them, you don't consider it because the guy that braught them up said that Vai sucks? How many of you have even heard Golem, BTBAM, or Dillinger? The only band any of you talk about is Nile, yet my entire opinion is full of shit. What the Fuck?

I got an idea if you are all going to bitch about my attacking wankery. Focus on other bands. Hell, bands in general since for all practical purposes those guitarists are soloists anyway. Mercy/Severity was on the right track when he mentioned Trivium being praised as technical. THEIR NOT.

I want to discuss this, bands that are falsey praised. And if you're going to argue an opinion, be mature about.

 

[Idunnonuten]

I'm with you hibernal, some of the crap I've read on this page has been laughable.

Like what? hibernal got the devildog's quote backward anyway.
And by the way i fucked up on that paragraph, it should have read "bands that can not only play heavy... but slow things down..."

 

[EVH316]

Like the suggestion by one or two (yeah, yeah I know not all of you inferred it) that Vai, Petrucci etc were crap. I don't have a problem with saying "I don't like Vai, I find his music uninspired" but to call him a poor guitarist is so ridiculous it defies belief. He is, without question, among the elite few on this planet. That shouldn't even be questioned.

What next? Vinnie Colauita can't play drums?

 

[Idunnonuten]

Like the suggestion by one or two (yeah, yeah I know not all of you inferred it) that Vai, Petrucci etc were crap. I don't have a problem with saying "I don't like Vai, I find his music uninspired" but to call him a poor guitarist is so ridiculous it defies belief. He is, without question, among the elite few on this planet. That shouldn't even be questioned.

What next? Vinnie Colauita can't play drums?

The man has his talents, i agree, and if anyone thinks i am trying to say he doesn't then i apologize for the misunderstanding. I merely think he is over- rated. The same goes for all those guys. I personally couldn't pull their stuff off, I just feel that they get all the praise while guys like Karl Sanders are considered monotenous (which is absurd).

Another really successful (as in not stupid) very technical band is Emperor.

 

[Death Aflame]

Technical music for Technicality's sake is pointless in terms of legit musical expression.

Necrophagist may be the most technically astounding new act in awhile, but they bore me, why? Simple they are in their own little world making the most technical music they can possible muster up with no real meaning behind it. Some of the best music is deceptively simple, I am thinking along the lines of Agalloch here. Their stuff is quite easy to pick-up and play yet it works extremely well because it fits perfectly with the themes they try to produce: desolation, loneliness and melancholy.

 

[EVH316]

The man has his talents, i agree, and if anyone thinks i am trying to say he doesn't then i apologize for the misunderstanding. I merely think he is over- rated. The same goes for all those guys. I personally couldn't pull their stuff off, I just feel that they get all the praise while guys like Karl Sanders are considered monotenous (which is absurd).

Another really successful (as in not stupid) very technical band is Emperor.

Yeah I'll agree with most of what you said there. Emperor certainly have some complicated arrangements without the musicianship itself being anything over technical.

And I certainly wouldn't bag Karl Sanders. The music is exceptional and his Egyptian lyrics quite remarkable in their depth (and factual basis).

But I don't see how vai etc can be over-rated. They are simply in a class of their own. Their music, well that comes down to opinion I guess. It's not my favourite but I do enjoy some Steve Vai as well as early Dream Theater.

 

[Under The Oak]

I have owned two of their albums: train of thought and six degrees

I can see how one might get the impression from those two recent albums alone, but listen to the complexity of the different tempos, keys, and meters on Images And Words and the masterful technique and tone of Awake and those two albums right there prove you wrong.

To say that all Satriani, Vai, and Petrucci do is chromatic solos - WTF??? Slayer sure as hell does, but not those guys. Fuck, you must be retarded. Do you even play guitar? Try playing "Tender Surrender" by Steve Vai, "Flying In A Blue Dream" by Satriani, or "Metropolis Part I" by Dream Theater. I guarantee you'll shit yourself trying to play those. Isn't wankery supposed to be easy?

Another really successful (as in not stupid) very technical band is Emperor.

Again, Emperor is a wanna-be technical band. I love their music (early and late stuff) but they are not complex or technical. They play riffs that sound difficult and chaotic, yet are actually very easy and take a minor amount of skill.

It's funny to me how I never hear people bitch about show-offs who can play the piano like an extension of their dick. Apparently it's artistic if you play super fast and complex stuff on piano, but if it's on guitar, you're a wanking asshole. Fuck that.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I personally like technical music in many forms, from Vai to DEP to Death, and even Rush or Primus. Now there's something to get your blood boiling. I know quite a few of you will ride my ass for calling Primus technical, which is unfortunate. Wanky bands like Dream Theatre have nothing on them.

 

[Burkhard]

Some albums I´d consider technical:
Atrox - "Terrestrials", "Orgasm"
Sieges Even - "Life Cycle", "Steps", "Sophisticated"
Mekong Delta - "Mekong Delta", "The Music Of Erich Zann", "Dances Of Death"
Fates Warning - "Perfect Symmetry"
Psychotic Waltz - "A Social Grace"
Voivod - "Nothingface"
Toxik - "Think This"
Hexenhaus - "Dejavoodoo"
Thought Industry - "Songs For Insects"
Watchtower - "Control And Resistance"

 

[Idunnonuten]

Again, Emperor is a wanna-be technical band. I love their music (early and late stuff) but they are not complex or technical. They play riffs that sound difficult and chaotic, yet are actually very easy and take a minor amount of skill.

And I'm the one that's "retarted"? you just insulted yourself.

It's funny to me how I never hear people bitch about show-offs who can play the piano like an extension of their dick. Apparently it's artistic if you play super fast and complex stuff on piano, but if it's on guitar, you're a wanking asshole.Fuck that.

I see what you're saying, but there is still a difference. Regardless of what you want to convince yourself, the majority of Petrucci's solos especially ARE chromatic. I've seen the sheet music. It is easy as hell to hit any fret any call it a solo (Bite of The Mosquito was the song i think) where as piano soloist usually stick to their scales, and either way I find pianio slightly more difficult. Again, though i see what you're saying.

 

[Idunnonuten]

Yeah I'll agree with most of what you said there. Emperor certainly have some complicated arrangements without the musicianship itself being anything over technical.

And I certainly wouldn't bag Karl Sanders. The music is exceptional and his Egyptian lyrics quite remarkable in their depth (and factual basis).

But I don't see how vai etc can be over-rated. They are simply in a class of their own. Their music, well that comes down to opinion I guess. It's not my favourite but I do enjoy some Steve Vai as well as early Dream Theater.

Legit, but i geuss my argument is just that I have more respect for guys that can arrange (like Emperor) an entire complex peice and have the ability to shred, solo, etc. When I listen to these guys i hear solo after solo after solo and the riffs that come so few and far between are merely breaks between or protals for the next solo. Their is no passion or soul. they're just shredding, and I eventually get tired of listening to that.

Let me say that i'm glad to see this thread finally work itself into a discussion.

 

[EVH316]

Listen to Vai's Touching Tongues off Sex & Religion. One of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard ...

 

[Under The Oak]

And I'm the one that's "retarted"? you just insulted yourself.

How did I insult myself by saying Emperor is not technical? I enjoy more simplistic music than you probably do, and I never insulted Emperor or said you were stupid for listening to them.

I see what you're saying, but there is still a difference. Regardless of what you want to convince yourself, the majority of Petrucci's solos especially ARE chromatic. I've seen the sheet music. It is easy as hell to hit any fret any call it a solo (Bite of The Mosquito was the song i think) where as piano soloist usually stick to their scales, and either way I find pianio slightly more difficult. Again, though i see what you're saying.

"Bite of the Mosquito" isn't a Dream Theater song, I believe its from the IMPROV session of Jordan Rudess and John Petrucci. Not everyone's gifted at improvisation, but all the sheet music I've seen for Petrucci's early work is pretty advanced. But then most chromatics are not technical anyway, so what would you be complaining about this for?

Can a talented "wanker" just decide to put blues influence into his music or go into simpler guitarwork for sake of tone and technique creativity? Petrucci is one of the musicians who I've always seen as very flexible in his ability to do both rhythm and lead extremely well. He knows when to be soft and dramatic and when to be loud and crazy. No doubt that some of his solos aren't difficult at all, but he's not going for the award of "teh most techn1c4l geetar player in teh univ3rs3". He does it his own style and if you're judging him based on two albums out of the multitudes he's done, then you're just ignorant.