In and outs(recording drum tracks)

[Casting Shadows]

Hey all, i hoping someone can help me here.

The band i play guitar in has started recording an EP/LP (depending one what gets done) and we dont have a drummer so i'm playing all the drums on the recordings aswell as guitar and my problem is having to play the whole song all over again if i make a mistake right near the end of the track(songs are quite long so it gets exhausting quick).

I have asked the engineer why cant we cut in somewhere before the mistake to save me having to play the 5 minutes before i messed up again but he reckons its not possible cause there are overheads on the kit.

Can someone tell me if it is possible to cut in at any point seamlessly or point me in the right direction. He is using the latest cubase if that helps.

Thanks, from my arms and legs.

 

[Trevoire520]

If there's a pause somewhere in the song then it's easy enough to drop you in there. If not then you can still do it during busy sections, though it's much more difficult. Make sure to have a decent amount of pre-roll and play along to it to make sure that there is energy in the room, instead of starting off from having a dead room due to you not playing anything.

 

[greyskull]

it is quite possible if you have a decent amount of pre roll and play EXACTLY the same thing along up until the punch in.

 

[DM 3rd eye]

it is quite possible if you have a decent amount of pre roll and play EXACTLY the same thing along up until the punch in.

+1

Sounds like your engineer is either a little lazy or just not comfortable with his own skills.

If I had the option, I'd rather not do a punch in on drums, but it's certainly not impossible!

 

[avrinder]

If I had the option, I'd rather not do a punch in on drums, but it's certainly not impossible!

exactly!

 

[Force666]

Punching in drums isn't any harder than punching in anything else. Including the engineers face.

 

[drew_drummer]

For an engineer to say something like that.. I'm gobsmacked. Has this guy ever recorded drums before?

Lets say you play your parts 8 bars at a time. Play 8 bars; and start the 9th bar with the first hit of the next part (usually a kick and a cymbal for example) ... then record a bar ahead (so from the 10th bar marker) .. the next 8 bars. Drag audio back into position so you overlap the hit you left... and with a little bit of crossfading, those two parts will merge well together.

The trick is to record to a metronome for this to sound the best it can.

 

[Casting Shadows]

thats what i thought.
i had already explained the whole "pre-roll" (i didnt know what it was called until now) and said "i'll just play the 15-30 seconds before the recording kicks in" and he thinks there will still be a noticeable pause but i agree and i think he is just lazy.
does anyone know of a online tutorial on this process so i can show him, i searched for something but im not clued in on the terminology so its hard.

Thanks again, you all have proved my point.

 

[drew_drummer]

I don't think he's being lazy. I think he thinks that he's doing a good job by getting you to do the best performance you can do. But ultimately... there is no perfect take. He needs to realise that when you make a mistake, you should go from there, and then comp it all together and see what it sounds like.

He'll probably come here a week after you're done and talk about this bitch of a session he just finished up.

 

[John_C]

....and justice for all: the drums were recorded in tiny sections to keep up the intensity and the insanely hard hitting. This was done using tape. If it could be done with tape, it can definitely be done in a modern DAW situation. Yes that mix isn't what you (or anyone else probably ) are looking for, but i haven't noticed any punch-in problems that i can hear on that album, no odd cymbal artifacts or anything.

As far as terminology goes, it's called a punch in. Everyone uses them all the time. Some peoples sessions are just a massive load of punch ins, there were never any original full length (or anywhere close) takes.

 

[Casting Shadows]

i was actually watching an Opeth DVD yesterday and he was doing the drums in sections which actually reminded me to start this thread.
I do understand the engineer probably wants the best takes possible but when im a guitarist playing drums i need all the help i can get haha
having to redo 5 minutes of a song because i made a mistake in the last 30 seconds will more then likely result in me making more mistakes in the first 5 minutes when redoing that and more then likely still making a mistake in the original spot because id be more tired haha.

you guys have definately given me what i wanted to know though so i really appreciate it, i can at least take this info and put it on the table and i found a tutorial on doing so i can at least show him how to if he doesn't know.

The engineer is doing it for free so im definately not wanting to offend him haha.
just want to make both our lives easier.

thanks again.

 

[brianhood]

sounds like he doesn't know what he's doing

you get what you pay for though(usually)

 

[beyond dead]

yeah, punch ins shouldnt be a problem.


usually what I do is get a few performances and comp them together