Call me Anders Fanboy if you like but here's the difference between In Flames and any other MDM band. Song has nice melodies but when you heard the best MDM vocal out there, ones like this comes just meh.
IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020
- Thread starter Ilias7
- Start date
Call me Anders Fanboy if you like but here's the difference between In Flames and any other MDM band. Song has nice melodies but when you heard the best MDM vocal out there, ones like this comes just meh.
ThePhobiac
be at ease
View attachment 25466
Looks like me and Tanner are bros on Twitter now. I could invite him here but that probably wouldn't end well
Score.
I need to get in touch with this guy. I have an EP in the works that could use his nasty drumming skills. Imagine the killer tuneage... Aye-yai-YAI.
Ehh this really doesn't do anything for me. The vocals are way too one-dimensional and high pitched. There is no emotion to them. Sounds like a worse The Duskfall, with less effective melodies. It's almost a mid-tempo (melo)death'n'roll with a cheapo Arch Enemy-like solo in the middle. Just my opinion. Have the same thing but better from almost 20 years ago:
Battles re-listen, first time I've listened to most of these songs in 2 or 3 years.
Drained - 3/10 - didn't understand why everyone liked this song, still don't get it. Awful lyrics, awful vocals, embarrassing chorus, solo abuses the wah pedal to the point of parody. Those synths towards the end... just laughable. Terrible song.
The End - 7/10 - SOAPF B-side which suffers from shitty Battles production. Best song on the album by some distance, but that is not saying much. Child choir thing is pretty lame. Would have liked the solo and the track in general to have a bit more speed. Everything on this album is lacking urgency. I guess that's just the Caifornia-vibe coming through though. Hang ten bruh.
Like Sand - 4/10 - hard to take this seriously when it starts off with Anders whining about the whole "wild" world being against him. I don't know. This one is okay in small parts. The chorus is super lame. Lyrics make me want to slap Anders in the face and tell him to man up. Kind of a boring song overall. The entire album has this slightly-less-than-mid-tempo speed which is sleep inducing.
The Truth - 3/10 - just an average pop song. 0/10 as an In Flames track but based on its individual merits... it's just whatever. You can imagine it on some commercial radio station. Inoffensive, unoriginal, hollow nothingness.
In My Room - 6/10 - okay, so the song title is lame and Anders singing is average at best... but this one isn't so bad. The riffs are kind of groovy, the chorus is decent and Bjorn for once crafts a good solo although I find it kind of weird how the song tempo in general is, as usual, pretty laid back, and the solo suddenly starts speeding everything up before returning to normal.
Before I Fall - 6/10 - I quite liked this one when Battles was first released. Not so much nowadays. Intro is fine. Verses are boring. Chorus is modern IF-101 but Anders' vocals are autotuned to the point where it is impossible to ignore it. Kind of like in the 'Follow Me' verses... I just can't unhear how unnatural it sounds. Kind of a shame as I think this has the potential to be SOAPF-level decent, but production and lack of ideas in the verses hold it back.
Through My Eyes - 4/10 - verses are modern IF trying to be 'heavy', and sounding like shit as a result (also see Everything's Gone and When My Cock Explodes from Siren Charms). Pre-chorus is promising but then that chorus... bleugh. Solo is shit and barges into the track several decibels higher than everything else which is really noticeable and really annoying. I am not sure why they would do this on purpose but I find it hard to believe they just overlooked it, so I have to assume they put it in the song like this because they wanted to... and I just shake my head in confusion.
Battles - 6/10 - for some reason I have a bit of a soft spot for this one and I'm not sure why. In terms of this California pop-rock thing they seemed to be chasing on this album I feel like this and the bonus tracks are the closest they got to achieving that sound. It's one of the shorter songs on the album which means it's to the point and that's fine by me.
Here Until Forever - 3/10 - opening is like combination of power and 80s metal. Verses are pretty terrible. Bad singing, no instruments to speak of. Anders' wailing in the chorus is painful. Eochaid's favourite ever lyrics in this song I believe... "when I look at youuu, I see meeeee"... beautiful. But yeah, this one is bad. Anders' poor son - his sister gets Come Clarity and he gets this piece of shit. For what it's worth this one is a little bit better live. Not much, but a little bit.
Underneath My Skin - 1/10 - what a fucking piece of shit this song is. Shit, sludgy riffs. Incredibly boring verses with bad everything. Up there with Bottled as worst IF song ever. At least Bottled has a half decent solo. This has nothing. NOTHING. It's anti-music. It could be used to torture political prisoners and could probably break them in record time. I have PTSD from listening to it.
Wallflower - 6/10 - better version of TCP. The only song on this album with any hint of creativity, that tries to break out of the most basic formula. Intro still a bit too long but more interesting than TCP. Anders vocals much better than TCP. I actually like the chorus. The interlude is well done. "The older I get, the younger I feel" - yes Anders, we have noticed hopefully one day your mid-life crisis will end.
Save Me - 2/10 - the final excretion of this annoying album. Guitar melodies at the very start of the song are OK. The rest of it is a total pile of shit. SOMEBODY SAVE MEEEE... no. I refuse.
Greatest Greed - 6.5/10 - see Battles (the song). It isn't really In Flames, but for the sound they seemed to be aiming for on this record this is about as close as they get to pulling it off. IF meets California pop-punk. I don't mind it as a one off bonus track.
Us Against The World - 7/10 - also see Battles (the song)... but for whatever reason I kinda dig this one. Maybe because it's the only song on the album that has any real energy. Once again this is really not what anyone thinks of when it comes to In Flames, but then you could say that for Battles as a whole. If you're forgetting the band's history and just trying to work out what they were trying to achieve in terms of an overall sound this song or Greatest Greed might be the best examples. Not sure why either are bonus tracks whilst turds like Underneath my Skin, Through My Eyes and Save Me were put onto the main album... but IF had a habit during this time of putting the best songs in the bonus section. The Chase & Become the Sky from Siren Charms suffered the same fate.
Overall album rates 4 or 5/10. Mostly boring/average with some disgusting turds festering at the bottom of this musical toilet. Even the 'best' songs on the album are just above average and that is probably being generous as, really, compared to IF best works the 7/10 tracks on here are nothing.
One more time for Eochaid... when I loooook at youuuu, I seeee meeeeeee
Drained - 3/10 - didn't understand why everyone liked this song, still don't get it. Awful lyrics, awful vocals, embarrassing chorus, solo abuses the wah pedal to the point of parody. Those synths towards the end... just laughable. Terrible song.
The End - 7/10 - SOAPF B-side which suffers from shitty Battles production. Best song on the album by some distance, but that is not saying much. Child choir thing is pretty lame. Would have liked the solo and the track in general to have a bit more speed. Everything on this album is lacking urgency. I guess that's just the Caifornia-vibe coming through though. Hang ten bruh.
Like Sand - 4/10 - hard to take this seriously when it starts off with Anders whining about the whole "wild" world being against him. I don't know. This one is okay in small parts. The chorus is super lame. Lyrics make me want to slap Anders in the face and tell him to man up. Kind of a boring song overall. The entire album has this slightly-less-than-mid-tempo speed which is sleep inducing.
The Truth - 3/10 - just an average pop song. 0/10 as an In Flames track but based on its individual merits... it's just whatever. You can imagine it on some commercial radio station. Inoffensive, unoriginal, hollow nothingness.
In My Room - 6/10 - okay, so the song title is lame and Anders singing is average at best... but this one isn't so bad. The riffs are kind of groovy, the chorus is decent and Bjorn for once crafts a good solo although I find it kind of weird how the song tempo in general is, as usual, pretty laid back, and the solo suddenly starts speeding everything up before returning to normal.
Before I Fall - 6/10 - I quite liked this one when Battles was first released. Not so much nowadays. Intro is fine. Verses are boring. Chorus is modern IF-101 but Anders' vocals are autotuned to the point where it is impossible to ignore it. Kind of like in the 'Follow Me' verses... I just can't unhear how unnatural it sounds. Kind of a shame as I think this has the potential to be SOAPF-level decent, but production and lack of ideas in the verses hold it back.
Through My Eyes - 4/10 - verses are modern IF trying to be 'heavy', and sounding like shit as a result (also see Everything's Gone and When My Cock Explodes from Siren Charms). Pre-chorus is promising but then that chorus... bleugh. Solo is shit and barges into the track several decibels higher than everything else which is really noticeable and really annoying. I am not sure why they would do this on purpose but I find it hard to believe they just overlooked it, so I have to assume they put it in the song like this because they wanted to... and I just shake my head in confusion.
Battles - 6/10 - for some reason I have a bit of a soft spot for this one and I'm not sure why. In terms of this California pop-rock thing they seemed to be chasing on this album I feel like this and the bonus tracks are the closest they got to achieving that sound. It's one of the shorter songs on the album which means it's to the point and that's fine by me.
Here Until Forever - 3/10 - opening is like combination of power and 80s metal. Verses are pretty terrible. Bad singing, no instruments to speak of. Anders' wailing in the chorus is painful. Eochaid's favourite ever lyrics in this song I believe... "when I look at youuu, I see meeeee"... beautiful. But yeah, this one is bad. Anders' poor son - his sister gets Come Clarity and he gets this piece of shit. For what it's worth this one is a little bit better live. Not much, but a little bit.
Underneath My Skin - 1/10 - what a fucking piece of shit this song is. Shit, sludgy riffs. Incredibly boring verses with bad everything. Up there with Bottled as worst IF song ever. At least Bottled has a half decent solo. This has nothing. NOTHING. It's anti-music. It could be used to torture political prisoners and could probably break them in record time. I have PTSD from listening to it.
Wallflower - 6/10 - better version of TCP. The only song on this album with any hint of creativity, that tries to break out of the most basic formula. Intro still a bit too long but more interesting than TCP. Anders vocals much better than TCP. I actually like the chorus. The interlude is well done. "The older I get, the younger I feel" - yes Anders, we have noticed
hopefully one day your mid-life crisis will end.Save Me - 2/10 - the final excretion of this annoying album. Guitar melodies at the very start of the song are OK. The rest of it is a total pile of shit. SOMEBODY SAVE MEEEE... no. I refuse.
Greatest Greed - 6.5/10 - see Battles (the song). It isn't really In Flames, but for the sound they seemed to be aiming for on this record this is about as close as they get to pulling it off. IF meets California pop-punk. I don't mind it as a one off bonus track.
Us Against The World - 7/10 - also see Battles (the song)... but for whatever reason I kinda dig this one. Maybe because it's the only song on the album that has any real energy. Once again this is really not what anyone thinks of when it comes to In Flames, but then you could say that for Battles as a whole. If you're forgetting the band's history and just trying to work out what they were trying to achieve in terms of an overall sound this song or Greatest Greed might be the best examples. Not sure why either are bonus tracks whilst turds like Underneath my Skin, Through My Eyes and Save Me were put onto the main album... but IF had a habit during this time of putting the best songs in the bonus section. The Chase & Become the Sky from Siren Charms suffered the same fate.
Overall album rates 4 or 5/10. Mostly boring/average with some disgusting turds festering at the bottom of this musical toilet. Even the 'best' songs on the album are just above average and that is probably being generous as, really, compared to IF best works the 7/10 tracks on here are nothing.
One more time for Eochaid... when I loooook at youuuu, I seeee meeeeeee
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Do you also enjoy recreational urethra swabs?
How did you know?
Like it or not bros, Battles will forever be part of historyyyyyy
Seriously though I just wanted to go back and see if it was as bad as I remembered. I went back to SC some time ago and found that there was at least some things about it I didn't completely hate. Battles was pretty much exactly as I remembered it though - hollow, fairly boring, wafer thin production. Nothing there that made me stop and say 'actually, that's pretty good'. If anything the opposite, unfortunately.
Now let's all listen to some Brokencyde.
Disconnecting the Dots is awesome, definitely the stand out of the new album.
DTD is definitely my favourite overall, but I really like Starless Night & Desensitized as well.
(02:38 - basically late-90s IF hero worship, briefly reminds me of that interlude in Zombie Inc)
Neither of those tracks are as melodic as DTD but they are still great. Wolf to Man just has that 90s MDM feel that's missing from practically everything post-2000. The advent of metalcore completely poisoned the genre. There are hardly any bands still producing that old school sound. In fact of all the bands I've listened to in recent years I'd say only Arch Enemy's Will To Power & Nightrage's Wolf To Man manage to authentically pull it off. DT's Atoma gets pretty close as well, although still has a few too many 2010s DT influences for me to put it in the same category.
ThePhobiac
be at ease
I can never decide whether Lunar Strain or Battles is my least favorite IF album. LS does have some neat folky elements, but the album just lacks atmosphere and it's only enjoyable, imo, as a curiosity. It's stilted and feels like a series of exercises. Battles at least has some feeling to it and some cool ideas here and there, but it's just so cringy and commercialized, far beyond anything else they've done before.
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Lunar Strain obviously has shit production but produced Behind Space, Starforsaken, In Flames, Clad in Shadows and Upon an Oaken Throne. I will admit all of those songs could have been better but given the time constraints it's incredible Jesper was able to deliver such strong tracks in such a short window. Think about how Behind Space 99 & Clad in Shadows 99 sound on Colony with a little retouching and better production. Give most of the LS songs that treatment and they'll sound a million times better.
I think it's unfair to compare a demo, which LS effectively is, to anything else in the band's discography without taking into account the handicaps LS was created under. When you consider that and then take a look at Battles - created by much more experienced musicians with much more time and a famous producer overseeing everything - it's obvious to me at least that Lunar Strain wins hands down. Even taking the handicaps out of the equation I still prefer Lunar Strain.
One thing I will say for LS is that Stanne is not at his best. He sounds a lot better on The Gallery which was produced roughly a year later. I still don't think Stanne sounds bad, but the production doesn't do him any favours. I prefer Anders' vocals on the '99 versions of BS and CiS, but again it's a really unfair comparison.
Lunar isn't even close to my least favourite IF album to be honest. I prefer it to ASOP, SC and Battles. ASOP technically has better songs but the production and vocals ruin it for me in a way that the LS production and vocals do not. SC is just not what I want out of any metal band, let alone IF, whilst Battles is as soulless and hollow as anything you'll ever hear. It's like a parody album the band made to have a laugh at the people who call them sellouts - except they were actually serious about it, which makes it even worse. At least Lunar Strain had some genuine heart and passion behind it - can you honestly say the same about Battles? For me that album is so insidious that it ranks way below every other album the band have ever put out. With every other album, even Siren Charms, I think the band were trying to put out something genuine. Battles is the only album they've ever released that feels plastic and fake to me. I can't stand it - in case my descriptions haven't already made that abundantly clear
I think it's unfair to compare a demo, which LS effectively is, to anything else in the band's discography without taking into account the handicaps LS was created under. When you consider that and then take a look at Battles - created by much more experienced musicians with much more time and a famous producer overseeing everything - it's obvious to me at least that Lunar Strain wins hands down. Even taking the handicaps out of the equation I still prefer Lunar Strain.
One thing I will say for LS is that Stanne is not at his best. He sounds a lot better on The Gallery which was produced roughly a year later. I still don't think Stanne sounds bad, but the production doesn't do him any favours. I prefer Anders' vocals on the '99 versions of BS and CiS, but again it's a really unfair comparison.
Lunar isn't even close to my least favourite IF album to be honest. I prefer it to ASOP, SC and Battles. ASOP technically has better songs but the production and vocals ruin it for me in a way that the LS production and vocals do not. SC is just not what I want out of any metal band, let alone IF, whilst Battles is as soulless and hollow as anything you'll ever hear. It's like a parody album the band made to have a laugh at the people who call them sellouts - except they were actually serious about it, which makes it even worse. At least Lunar Strain had some genuine heart and passion behind it - can you honestly say the same about Battles? For me that album is so insidious that it ranks way below every other album the band have ever put out. With every other album, even Siren Charms, I think the band were trying to put out something genuine. Battles is the only album they've ever released that feels plastic and fake to me. I can't stand it - in case my descriptions haven't already made that abundantly clear
ThePhobiac
be at ease
No, that all makes sense. I do recognize the context behind Lunar Strain's creation, and the end result is pretty impressive, considering. And production kneecapping IF songs is a story as old as time, lol, so agreed there as well. Lunar Strain is obviously closer to what I consider genuine Gothenburg metal made from the heart, but at the same time, does that mean I like the end result? It's a case where I can respect the work that went into it while not really digging the final product. Let's just say that I like the story surrounding Lunar Strain's creation way more than I like that of Battles'.
The thing about Battles is that I do think that the band's intentions to put out an album they thought was good were genuine, but they were just really misguided about how best to approach it. You can be proud of a bad album everyone hates, after all. I was reading in this thread some time ago that the band took the negative reception to Siren Charms pretty hard, and if that's true, then it makes sense that they would have tried to course-correct by taking a new approach entirely. Problem is, it was a poor approach. Benson, outside musicians helping with arrangements, autotune, etc. What a shitshow. All that being said, I can still find enjoyment in the end product.
Do I get more enjoyment from it than I do LS? I still don't know.
Basically: I appreciate the intent and work behind LS, but the album doesn't live up to it. I think the intent and work behind Battles is a colossal mess, but the album is still somewhat fine to me.
The thing about Battles is that I do think that the band's intentions to put out an album they thought was good were genuine, but they were just really misguided about how best to approach it. You can be proud of a bad album everyone hates, after all. I was reading in this thread some time ago that the band took the negative reception to Siren Charms pretty hard, and if that's true, then it makes sense that they would have tried to course-correct by taking a new approach entirely. Problem is, it was a poor approach. Benson, outside musicians helping with arrangements, autotune, etc. What a shitshow. All that being said, I can still find enjoyment in the end product.
Do I get more enjoyment from it than I do LS? I still don't know.
Basically: I appreciate the intent and work behind LS, but the album doesn't live up to it. I think the intent and work behind Battles is a colossal mess, but the album is still somewhat fine to me.
IF going pop-punk/rock isn't genuine to me. It can't be a coincidence that they fly out to the States with Howard Benson and suddenly they're producing tracks like Battles, Greatest Greed, The Truth, In My Room, Us Against the World and Save Me.
The rest of the tracks sound similar to what you describe - course-correction by trying to reproduce older material in Benson style. Drained, The End, Before I Falll, Underneath My Skin and Through My Eyes are like discarded demos from the ASOP/SOAPF sessions. Like Sand is the budget version of Satellites and Astronauts. Wallflower is TCP - for once, they actually did better, but not a high initial benchmark to surpass. Here Until Forever is the Tesco Brand Evil in a Closet/Come Clarity.
Nothing about the album is original or genuine to me. Misguided is right. They shouldn't have released it - I don't think they were ready. Not sure if the bad reaction to Siren Charms pressured them into getting Battles out fairly quickly or whether the chance of working with Benson was too good of an opportunity to pass up. Either way, from interviews I've read even Anders & Bjorn see the album as somewhat of a misstep.
The rest of the tracks sound similar to what you describe - course-correction by trying to reproduce older material in Benson style. Drained, The End, Before I Falll, Underneath My Skin and Through My Eyes are like discarded demos from the ASOP/SOAPF sessions. Like Sand is the budget version of Satellites and Astronauts. Wallflower is TCP - for once, they actually did better, but not a high initial benchmark to surpass. Here Until Forever is the Tesco Brand Evil in a Closet/Come Clarity.
Nothing about the album is original or genuine to me. Misguided is right. They shouldn't have released it - I don't think they were ready. Not sure if the bad reaction to Siren Charms pressured them into getting Battles out fairly quickly or whether the chance of working with Benson was too good of an opportunity to pass up. Either way, from interviews I've read even Anders & Bjorn see the album as somewhat of a misstep.
Lunar Strain obviously has shit production but produced Behind Space, Starforsaken, In Flames, Clad in Shadows and Upon an Oaken Throne. I will admit all of those songs could have been better but given the time constraints it's incredible Jesper was able to deliver such strong tracks in such a short window. Think about how Behind Space 99 & Clad in Shadows 99 sound on Colony with a little retouching and better production. Give most of the LS songs that treatment and they'll sound a million times better.
I think it's unfair to compare a demo, which LS effectively is, to anything else in the band's discography without taking into account the handicaps LS was created under. When you consider that and then take a look at Battles - created by much more experienced musicians with much more time and a famous producer overseeing everything - it's obvious to me at least that Lunar Strain wins hands down. Even taking the handicaps out of the equation I still prefer Lunar Strain.
One thing I will say for LS is that Stanne is not at his best. He sounds a lot better on The Gallery which was produced roughly a year later. I still don't think Stanne sounds bad, but the production doesn't do him any favours. I prefer Anders' vocals on the '99 versions of BS and CiS, but again it's a really unfair comparison.
Lunar isn't even close to my least favourite IF album to be honest. I prefer it to ASOP, SC and Battles. ASOP technically has better songs but the production and vocals ruin it for me in a way that the LS production and vocals do not. SC is just not what I want out of any metal band, let alone IF, whilst Battles is as soulless and hollow as anything you'll ever hear. It's like a parody album the band made to have a laugh at the people who call them sellouts - except they were actually serious about it, which makes it even worse. At least Lunar Strain had some genuine heart and passion behind it - can you honestly say the same about Battles? For me that album is so insidious that it ranks way below every other album the band have ever put out. With every other album, even Siren Charms, I think the band were trying to put out something genuine. Battles is the only album they've ever released that feels plastic and fake to me. I can't stand it - in case my descriptions haven't already made that abundantly clear
I had no idea Lunar Strain had such a bad rep before I got online. I think it's pretty awesome and I prefer it to anything after Clayman. I think there's some amazing stuff on there like Harlagaten.
Here's a couple bands some people on this board might like. Here's some mdm from Aephanemer:
Also, some power metal from Frozen Crown:
Also, some power metal from Frozen Crown:
Here's the thing, you absolutely can sell music like Siren Charms and Battles in the US. Plenty of equally shitty bands do it. The issue is that In Flames are now way too old to pull off the image needed. You need guys in their early 20s with make up and techwave/postpunk futuristic fancy image. Not 50 year old middle aged men who are balding, especially when they can't even pull off what I guess should constitute as singing live.
In Flames want to tap into that Black Veil Brides market, and it makes sense given how there is a lot of money to be made off western high school girls. It's just that this band can't pull it off - neither in terms of looks nor in terms of absolutely driven social media campaign that is necessary for such thing. You need youthful energy for making it in the modern music business.
If the band ended up quitting within the next two years, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
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