Interesting post about the Varg/Euronymous story

^ Agreed. I'm pretty ignorant about black metal but I bought Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and after listening to it several times wondered why on earth it was so highly rated. It does have it's own kind of aesthetic but the music seems very simplistic and repetitive. I found myself wondering if he was ever going to bring in a change or add a theme to the song and ended up just getting bored with it. Emperor seem to have been a completely different proposition, getting better technically and changing their ideas with each release. Am I missing the point with Burzum or are they just pointless?
 
Heckelgruber said:
^ Agreed. I'm pretty ignorant about black metal but I bought Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and after listening to it several times wondered why on earth it was so highly rated. It does have it's own kind of aesthetic but the music seems very simplistic and repetitive. I found myself wondering if he was ever going to bring in a change or add a theme to the song and ended up just getting bored with it. Emperor seem to have been a completely different proposition, getting better technically and changing their ideas with each release. Am I missing the point with Burzum or are they just pointless?
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Hvis lyset tar oss is a strange album in that a lot of people find it pretty instantly accessible (including a lot of people not otherwise into black metal), possibly because of it's relatively open harmonies (in contrast to say, similar vintage Immortal or Emperor, where the melodic line has to be teased out very dense harmonics). At the same time, I think it leaves some people scratching their heads because it doesn't follow the linear structural principles of a lot of metal. There's a tendency to expect a sort of 'riff salad' approach - one riff evolves into the next into the next as the song's 'story' or narrative unfolds. But Hvis lyset tar oss isn't really dealing with stories at the conceptual level - it's dealing with atavism, memory and loss - and its song structures reflect this. They're composed in the way that some classical music and a lot of ambient music is, by developing a handful of melodic themes and then varying their texture, dynamic and harmonic surrounding in repetition. If you go in assuming that all metal has to be put together like Slayer or Emperor, you're going to miss most of the album's internal complexity.
 
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The comparison with ambient is a pretty good one. It does seem like people who enjoy ambient music are more likely to appreciate that side of black metal than people who find ambient music to be "not music".

Saying that Burzum songs could have been composed by a 10-year-old is no more true than saying any given Lustmord song could have been. Just because something seems compositionally simple doesn't mean anyone could or would have made it and it doesn't mean it has no musical merit.
 
CAIRATH said:
The comparison with ambient is a pretty good one. It does seem like people who enjoy ambient music are more likely to appreciate that side of black metal than people who find ambient music to be "not music".

Saying that Burzum songs could have been composed by a 10-year-old is no more true than saying any given Lustmord song could have been. Just because something seems compositionally simple doesn't mean anyone could or would have made it and it doesn't mean it has no musical merit.
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It's the consequence of the Guitar God Syndrome - metalheads are sort of preconditioned to treat 'complex' as a synonym for 'technical.' This is exacerbated by the youth of much of the genre's fanbase - they don't have the kind of experience that would allow them to develop a more nuanced understanding of complexity (or value), so anything that doesn't fit into the faster, more syncopated, more time changes construction of 'complexity' ends up getting dismissed by callow teens with no real clue.
 
My Man Mahmoud said:
Hvis lyset tar oss is a strange album in that a lot of people find it pretty instantly accessible (including a lot of people not otherwise into black metal), possibly because of it's relatively open harmonies (in contrast to say, similar vintage Immortal or Emperor, where the melodic line has to be teased out very dense harmonics). At the same time, I think it leaves some people scratching their heads because it doesn't follow the linear structural principles of a lot of metal. There's a tendency to expect a sort of 'riff salad' approach - one riff evolves into the next into the next as the song's 'story' or narrative unfolds. But Hvis lyset tar oss isn't really dealing with stories at the conceptual level - it's dealing with atavism, memory and loss - and its song structures reflect this. They're composed in the way that some classical music and a lot of ambient music is, by developing a handful of melodic themes and then varying their texture, dynamic and harmonic surrounding in repetition. If you go in assuming that all metal has to be put together like Slayer or Emperor, you're going to miss most of the album's internal complexity.
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Thanks for the detailed response, scratching my head at it is definitely what I've been doing. I'll definitely give it another go, as well as find translations of the lyrics/liner notes. I do agree that expectations have an enormous effect on how you listen to something and how it in turn affects you.

@ metal_wrath: that was a dumb post, I hope you're joking for the genetic sake of your children.
 
Varg might be one of the funniest guys alive. He's has gone insane from spending to much time alone in the cell playing hi's casio. Make sure to check out hi's writings on paganism and his very own Burzum story.
 
CAIRATH said:
The comparison with ambient is a pretty good one. It does seem like people who enjoy ambient music are more likely to appreciate that side of black metal than people who find ambient music to be "not music".

Saying that Burzum songs could have been composed by a 10-year-old is no more true than saying any given Lustmord song could have been. Just because something seems compositionally simple doesn't mean anyone could or would have made it and it doesn't mean it has no musical merit.
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Give Lustmord some credit.
 
Far from Mahmoud's assertion that having the opinion that Burzum is poorly written is the result of guitar-god syndrome, I am niether a guitarist nor am I a so called "metalhead" nor am I particualrly enamoured with guitar playing. The fact I listen to a good deal of "metal" is really incidental. It's not like Burzum is written by someone who, having spent a good deal of time studying and composing music, decided to strip their compositions back to the most necessary elements. It is written by someone with limited musical resources who despite this fact wanted to try and make a statement regardless. In it's own right Burzum is as valid as any other music I guess, and anyone has the right to enjoy it. I don't see how you can validate it as anything other than what it is though.

Nice ad hominem though, Mahmoud, it must be that if someone has that opinion that it's because they don't know what they are talking about. Why don't you explain your use of the terms "harmonic" and "melodic" that you used so liberally? That you think that you can compare Emperor with Slayer or Immortal in a compositional sense pretty much speaks for itself as far as I am concerned. As does implying that the music of burzum is anything but "linear". You are making some pretty big assumptions though if you think that my opinion of Burzum is based at all on musical ignorance.
 
Was anyone talking to you? I didn't think so.

Now run along and play with your Legos when the adults are talking.
 
Here's the deal child:

1. You're the king of malapropisms, so really, you criticizing anybody's word usage is a pot.kettle.black@stfuyoufuckinghypocrite.com sort of moment.

2. What's the point of continuing a discussion with someone who can't seem figure out the basic concept of 'structure' and how Slayer, Immolation and Emperor might share patterns of arrangement with each other, but not with Burzum? Especially one who makes a habit of inserting himself into discussions that don't concern him...
 
I don't know, you apparently don't know what the terms "melodic" and "harmonic" mean so I doubt you are in any position to comment on the structure of anything. Stop pretending to be an expert, you clearly aren't.
 
My Man Mahmoud said:
Here's the deal child:

1. You're the king of malapropisms, so really, you criticizing anybody's word usage is a pot.kettle.black@stfuyoufuckinghypocrite.com sort of moment.

2. What's the point of continuing a discussion with someone who can't seem figure out the basic concept of 'structure' and how Slayer, Immolation and Emperor might share patterns of arrangement with each other, but not with Burzum? Especially one who makes a habit of inserting himself into discussions that don't concern him...
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You know, using words like "complex" in an analysis are unacceptable. Also trying to "name-drop" in order to give the illusion you have any sort of insight is unacceptable too. So that leaves the question, if you don't know shit about analysis, how the fuck do you even have the audacity to even make a comment? Let's face it here son, we both know you're just going to respond with some arbitrary comment about how you know what's up and you'll just resort to your usual routine "name-dropping" and ad hominems. So this time before you hit send, why don't you think long and hard about if Nothinggod and myself are right.
 
localloadie said:
You know, using words like "complex" in an analysis are unacceptable. Also trying to "name-drop" in order to give the illusion you have any sort of insight is unacceptable too. So that leaves the question, if you don't know shit about analysis, how the fuck do you even have the audacity to even make a comment? Let's face it here son, we both know you're just going to respond with some arbitrary comment about how you know what's up and you'll just resort to your usual routine "name-dropping" and ad hominems. So this time before you hit send, why don't you think long and hard about if Nothinggod and myself are right.
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Is there anything more pathetic than a tool who uses multiple accounts to give the illusion that he has supporters?
 
By the way, why don't you reference your claim in point 1? As far as I am concerned you are only using it as a validation for your ignorance as displayed in point 2. Also, the irony of saying I "insert" myself into discussions that don't concern me. It's a forum, you idiot.
 
My Man Mahmoud said:
Is there anything more pathetic than a tool who uses multiple accounts to give the illusion that he has supporters?
Click to expand...
Feel free to ask the moderators if localloadie and I are the same user.
 
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