Is exporting a mix with the Master Fader not a ZERO WRONG ?
- Thread starter A Toolish Circle
- Start date
every project i export to wav in cubase sounds much lower than played back in the program, no matter how much i set the fader before exporting. I can hear clearly differences between the exported files and the project, not only in volume. I usually record in 16/44 and try to put the master as loud as possible to compesate that... could anyone give me a clue for this?
brandy
Iguana Hell
I did not read all the post, but:
If you are in a 32bit floating point enviroment (Cubase, Nuendo etc) and you are talking of an in-the-box mixdown it is absolutly NO problem to lower the master fader as much as it needs to avoid clipping @ the master bus.
32bit float enviroment does not mean that you have to record in 32bit float - just record 24bit - the internal processing of the mixer will be at 32bit float.
32bit float gives you nearly unlimited internal headroom.
Try it. Boost a channel about 30db. (will result in massive clipping). Now lower the master fader about 30db. Completly clean.
I am not talking about plugins. Just an "emty" mixer. Some plugins (natives) can handle that amount of clipping, some not. The Oxford Plugins (DSP) will audible clip if you are above 0db.
If you go down to 16bit or 24 bit you should not forget to dither. Even in the case of a 16bit project setting. Because the internal processing is still 32float. (Again i am talking about Cubase, Nuendo etc)
brandy
If you are in a 32bit floating point enviroment (Cubase, Nuendo etc) and you are talking of an in-the-box mixdown it is absolutly NO problem to lower the master fader as much as it needs to avoid clipping @ the master bus.
32bit float enviroment does not mean that you have to record in 32bit float - just record 24bit - the internal processing of the mixer will be at 32bit float.
32bit float gives you nearly unlimited internal headroom.
Try it. Boost a channel about 30db. (will result in massive clipping). Now lower the master fader about 30db. Completly clean.
I am not talking about plugins. Just an "emty" mixer. Some plugins (natives) can handle that amount of clipping, some not. The Oxford Plugins (DSP) will audible clip if you are above 0db.
If you go down to 16bit or 24 bit you should not forget to dither. Even in the case of a 16bit project setting. Because the internal processing is still 32float. (Again i am talking about Cubase, Nuendo etc)
brandy
I bubble arround -2 ....0 db with mix bus comp but it always changes with me because of master fader automation!
C
C
chadsxe
Super Rad Member
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Wow...I am guessing that most peoeple in hear are tracking way to hot. If you are tracking in 24-bit then good god man re-think you gain staging. There is no reason why your mix should be peaking at anything aobve -6dBfs and it should be rms'ing in the -18 range.
->Gnash
No, you should not be using to master fader to make up volume but from the indication alone you are more close to proper leveing then think. Have yourself a little expirement and research into some really top notch mastering houses and or forums that ME's frequent and see if you can ask what they prefer mixes to come in at. As a matter of fact head over to the prosound forums and do a little reading in Brad Blackwoods forum.
->Gnash
No, you should not be using to master fader to make up volume but from the indication alone you are more close to proper leveing then think. Have yourself a little expirement and research into some really top notch mastering houses and or forums that ME's frequent and see if you can ask what they prefer mixes to come in at. As a matter of fact head over to the prosound forums and do a little reading in Brad Blackwoods forum.
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
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chadsxe
Super Rad Member
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Maybe not the most important but up there none the less right at the top. I think that it is however one of the most over looked aspects in the whole process of recording.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
LOL
Dimmu Borgir - Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia - Blessings Upon The Throne Of Tyranny:
Adobe Audition said:
No rules !
Freeedooooooom !
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
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No, actually it is the most important. Those who have never worked with analog have an extremely tough time understanding that because it's too easy to get sound to the L/R on a daw. But to make a true quality recording these principals must be adhered to.
Anyone who "overlooks" gain staging and signal flow is not a recording engineer.
Gnash
Lefty
Yeah, when I posted a while back, I posted my numbers wrong. I never track or mixdown anything too hot. I try and keep the meter at -6,-3. I posted +6. I was boosting though, WAY into the red just to get a decent level on mixdown. It's funny though, I realized, I don't really look at the numbers on shit. I just turn the knobs till it sounds good. If I was asked right now what my settings were on my guitar amp, or my pedals, I couldn't tell ya. Maybe that's why I flunked out of college.
I never track or mixdown anything too hot. I try and keep the meter at -6,-3. I posted +6. I was boosting though, WAY into the red just to get a decent level on mixdown. It's funny though, I realized, I don't really look at the numbers on shit. I just turn the knobs till it sounds good. If I was asked right now what my settings were on my guitar amp, or my pedals, I couldn't tell ya. Maybe that's why I flunked out of college.
chadsxe
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LOL
Dimmu Borgir - Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia - Blessings Upon The Throne Of Tyranny:
No rules !
Freeedooooooom !
Nope...sorry that is after the mix has been mastered. I will put my life on it that those levels were no were close when the Mixing Engineer handed the final mix to the Mastering Engineer.
Your right in the fact that there are "no rules", but there are practices that have been tried and true for a while. I can tell you without question though that pulling up the master fader to get a final volume is not one of them.
chadsxe
Super Rad Member
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This can easily be argued left and right, but I for one feel like the actual source is and always will be the most important.
I do agree with you 100% percent that 99% of people who are recording today have no clue about how important gain staging is. Espically those that you mentiond who have come from the analog world and for that matter 16-bit to 24-bit.
chadsxe
Super Rad Member
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Yeah, when I posted a while back, I posted my numbers wrong.
I figured that much but I must tell you if you are RMSing at those levels then they are still way to high. "You were boosting way in to the red to get a decent level". ERrrrr....that about says it all.
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
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Seizure.
Member
I TOTALLY have to agree with this, my stuff has improved alot since putting some more attention to this.
chadsxe
Super Rad Member
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Have you ever heard a recording with a crappy source? The source is start of everything. If the source is not good then nothing else can be good. Plain and simple.
Seizure.
Member
Your still not gonna have a truly awesome product if you overlook what Metalkingdom pointed out, its all the small (well small....) things that add up to that one big awesome production!
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
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I knew that this would be your response...
There are countless great recordings done with shit instruments, shit vocals, and all kinds of stuff that's not even musical at all.
I did a session with Swizz Beats where he squeezed a fucking baby toy (how's that for a source???) and I recorded it with a goddamn U87 and a 1073.
chadsxe
Super Rad Member
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I knew this would be your response. When I am talking about "source" I am not talking about an "instrument". I am talking about the entity behind the instrument. Give a noob the best equipment in the world and he still would never sound as good as oh lets say Stevie Ray Vaughn on a 100 dollar knock off guitar.
