Is it common practice to charge for multitracks after a project is complete?

[FischmungaXTR]

Situation:
Project done. band happy. They want multitracks for future reference. I'd have to spend at least a couple of hours sorting this all out for them.

Is it fair for me to charge them for this?

 

[Trevoire520]

Charge them for the time it'll take you to prep them. Only fair.

 

[fsgdjv]

I would honestly never do that. You charge for the recording and then for the mix right? Then if they have payed for the recording they should get what they paid for, ie a multitrack.

And really, how hard can it be? You must have saved some session at some point before the editing etc, or you could just consolidate the files in your mix sessions? I can't see how that would take more than half an hour if it's like 12 songs.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[FischmungaXTR]

i just want to know what the done thing is really.

 

[Sloan]

I would charge them an hourly rate, estimate a cost, get half that estimate up front. Do the work, send an invoice, collect the rest.

 

[amarshism]

I would honestly never do that. You charge for the recording and then for the mix right? Then if they have payed for the recording they should get what they paid for, ie a multitrack.

And really, how hard can it be? You must have saved some session at some point before the editing etc, or you could just consolidate the files in your mix sessions? I can't see how that would take more than half an hour if it's like 12 songs.

But that's just my opinion.

Shot yourself in the foot mate. They pay for recording and the MIX. That means try get the final stereo sum. Not everything in between and leading up to. That's proprietary information. Either charge hourly, or as this is becoming more and more frequent due to backing tracks, arrive at a fixed rate.

 

[006]

Yeah I would consider them getting the multitracks an additional service, and, as such, requires additional payment.

 

[egan.]

If someone comes in and just tracks with you (and mixes elsewhere) you'd give them the multis when they left. You shouldn't give them less b/c they paid for more services.
If you are worried about preserving your mix secrets, just remove plugs and automation when you're done (or alternatively freeze the tracks). Honestly though, I'd just hand them over and be done. A happy paying client is something to maintain.
edit: an addendum to that, if you charge an hourly rate then you are on the clock obviously but if you flat rate stuff then IMO everything but the media is included.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Shot yourself in the foot mate. They pay for recording and the MIX. That means try get the final stereo sum. Not everything in between and leading up to. That's proprietary information. Either charge hourly, or as this is becoming more and more frequent due to backing tracks, arrive at a fixed rate.

This.. x Infinity. They didn't pay for multitracks unless that's some part of the deal. They paid for the end product, a stereo mixdown etc. It takes time to go back and do the multitracks. So just charge your hourly rate for however long it takes. It may only be $100 odd dollars, who knows. But that's still work, work you had to do to get a client a product. End of story

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I'm with Egan on this.

 

[mickrich]

I always tell the band to bring a drive for the multis on the last day.
If they don't bring a drive then ask for them later I will still do it free if I'm not too busy.
If I am busy they have to wait but I still don't charge.
A happy customer is a repeat customer and it only takes a short time to copy the session files.

 

[if6was9]

I've done this for free before for bands but I once had a band ask me for the files a few times as they never bothered to keep them after I gave them the raw files the first time and they needed them later for a DJ remix. Depending on the project I will probably charge for this in future to prevent that situation happening as it was a massive waste of time on my part.

Also, if the band want to mix it themselves or give it to someone else to mix it then I give them raw files with no processing. I've thrown rough mixes together for bands to track the vocals to and had them ask me to give them the files with my EQing, compression, effects etc... on so they could "mix" it themselves with all the sounds I had put together. No thanks, if you want to mix it yourself you do so from scratch, if you want me to mix it pay me!

 

[DanLights]

I'm with Egan on this.

Yeah, me too. If you're only hired to record and not mix, you have to give away the raw tracks, and that's part of your recording fee (if you're working by the hour it's easy, whatever amount of hours it takes you to do it, that's it), so if they hire you to record AND mix and/or master, I don't see why you would leave out the multitracks as part of your fee.

 

[if6was9]

This also brings up another question. How long do you hold onto a session for? I have pretty much everything I've ever done backed up between a few drives but whats a reasonable time to no longer have the files available for a band, in your opinion?

I got asked for raw files for a session I'd done 2 years previously as they were re recording some stuff for an album and wanted to use some of the samples we'd come up with on that version of the song aswell. I had the songs sessions and files but I didn't have the session where we'd created the sound samples, only the finished sample with some of the music behind it. The band were a bit pissed off but agreed it wasn't unreasonable for the files to no longer be available after such a long time.

Is there an industry standard for this?

 

[Trevoire520]

I think the disagreement we're getting here is maybe because we've got 2 different situations potentially.

Asking for the raw audio files - Piece of piss, open session, consolidate and clear unused files if you haven't done so already, and then pop the audio on a drive. I wouldn't charge for this as it shouldn't take long.
Asking for processed multitracks/stems - This is quite a bit more work, especially if you're in PT and have to bounce things down in real time. This should be charged for imo.

 

[amarshism]

Providing raw tracks for an external mixer is part of the deal of just tracking. I was referring to bands wanting 'processed stems' which is becoming more and more common. That requires work and recalls so charge. Glad you're with me Chris haha.

 

[DanLights]

Oh yeah processed stems is definitely different, if that's the case then I agree with Marshy, Chris and everybody else.

 

[egan.]

This also brings up another question. How long do you hold onto a session for? I have pretty much everything I've ever done backed up between a few drives but whats a reasonable time to no longer have the files available for a band, in your opinion?

I got asked for raw files for a session I'd done 2 years previously as they were re recording some stuff for an album and wanted to use some of the samples we'd come up with on that version of the song aswell. I had the songs sessions and files but I didn't have the session where we'd created the sound samples, only the finished sample with some of the music behind it. The band were a bit pissed off but agreed it wasn't unreasonable for the files to no longer be available after such a long time.

Is there an industry standard for this?

This is another reason to hand stuff over. I keep everything indefinitely (I have 1" and ADATs going back to the 90's). But when I finish up I make the client take disks or bring a HD and take the sessions. This makes them their problem. I secretly still have them in my backups but they've got them too.

If you structure your workflow with this in mind it really doesn't make anymore work even if you're printing processing.

 

[C_F_H_13]

Every project I do I turn in the multitracks, with no automation/samples/plugins free of charge. I pretty much have to, as it's what's expected. IF they've paid for the recording, then THEY OWN IT. You're not required to give them an entire breakdown of what you did, but you are required to hand over any and all raw files they request.

The stems issue isn't a big deal for me either, cause I always print a bunch of mixes for every song (main/inst/acca/vox up/vox dwn/tv/drums only/guitar/bass/keys/other/vox).

The whole "how long to hold onto it for" is why I do this. I don't want backups for years or even months. When I hand over the drive I said to them "this is ALL the files, in 48 hours I'm deleting it off my drive. It's your responsibility now".

Of course bands are fucking idiots, so I generally hold onto a project for about a month to 6 weeks. Then after that period, I delete everything but the final mix session, and put it in my archive. That archive gets cleaned out about once or twice a year.

The biggest thing for engineers is to not become the archive for bands. Let them know that it's on them...it's their job, not yours, to make sure there files are available should they need em. If you hold onto the multitracks, you're putting yourself in a dangerous position where you have assumed responsibility of the project for an infinite amount of time. 99% of the time, no band will ever request files after, but if they do and you don't have em...you're fucked.

 

[mva801]

^^^ bingo. Do most of you guys keep the files for your clients? I never charge clients for their data, and I NEVER claim responsibility for keeping any of it/ backing it up. I make every band I work with bring in their own drive and a backup source that I sync two to three times a day. Band leaves, they take their shit with them. I charge hourly/ per day, not per song. If I mix it, I make a save as for the mix session, and I keep all my drum samples and what not on my own drives. So even if they open up the sessions on their own stuff, they wont have all the same plugins and my drum samples wont be on there.

I'm not worried about any secrets. Just becasue they see an eq on something doesn't mean they're going to start stealing all your work and ruin your business. I poked around in an As I Lay Dying session once that CR mixed, doesn't mean I can mix like him, so I have no problem with the bands keeping all of their own files. I just don't want all the drum samples floating around for potential pilfering.