Is it me...

[farside]

Or is mixing modern metal way harder then every other genre?

 

[chadsxe]

Or is mixing modern metal way harder then every other genre?

depends on who you ask...

For me it is like anything else. It basically just introduces a who new set problems I have to figure out.

 

[JeffTD]

Well, by principal, it will be harder to make an extreme metal mix sound as clear as say a country mix, because of all the isntruments involved.

You've got huge drumsets with tons of cymbals, 2 kick drums flying all over the place, fast rolls, etc. Piled on with a deep bass tone, often with lots of grind, then 4 tracks of nice, midrangey guitar tones, often a layer of keys or synths, and then cookie monster on top of it all. All that going on is going to be much harder to give every instrument its own sound space, as compared to a 4 piece drum kit, simple jazz bass, and a telecaster with Willy Nelsons vocals.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Well, think about if you have to mix an orchestra that was poorly recorded. I've never done it, but I imagine that's going to cause some gray hairs to sprout.

 

[Exocaster]

Well, think about if you have to mix an orchestra that was poorly recorded. I've never done it, but I imagine that's going to cause some gray hairs to sprout.

You don't usually have to do much in the way of mixing for an orchestra, though.

I don't know how they do it for soundtrack work or rock/metal stuff with orchestral sections, but IIRC, the traditional method for recording a classical piece is two overheads, L/R, high above the orchestra in the hall. That's it. Straight to tape. No compression, eq, or anything. Sometimes there's spot mics on soloists. As far as I know, it's still done this way, too, though now it's straight to digital 'cause of the lower noise floor.

It seems simple, and it's certainly a stark contrast to doing a modern metal mix, but I'm betting it's a flaming bitch to do in its own right. If nothing else, it's probably an object lesson in getting the sound at the source with good mic placement, 'cause you've got +/- 100 guys playing live, no overdubs, no effects, and you've got one shot to get it right.

 

[Kazrog]

I think that metal is among the hardest things to mix, particularly now with detuned instruments. Trying to get punch and clarity out of detuned instruments requires a lot of experience, as there's a lot of potential for instruments to fight over the same octave ranges, the human ear and speakers have more trouble responding to low frequencies, etc. It's also challenging to get a natural drum recording with a lot of punch and clarity, so time usually has to be factored in to do sound replacement and make it sit well with the rest of the mix.

I think we've reached a point of relative musical and sonic uniformity in extreme metal to where there's a certain set of "best practices," which Andy has been largely responsible for developing and perfecting. But it really comes down to experience. Andy could write a book, but it would still take years of hard work and dedication to get even close to as good as he is.

I worked with a producer in 2003 and 2004 who primarily did pop and country records in the past, and he related to me that metal was more challenging than anything he's mixed previously. Could have been the fucking POD XT guitars I insisted on using back then, though...

 

[006]

Yes, Exo, the mic'ing technique is correct for orchestra recordings. However, the more people in the group, the more condensors you throw up. for a small group, say +/- 20-50 players, you'll have a pair of LDC's on either side, and then spot mics wherever you feel (soloists and such). The bigger the group, the more pairs of overhead mic'ing. With spot mic'ing the soloists, you really don't even have that mic's track up that loud, because the soloist is still in the main OH mics, so you just blend in the spot mic to just give it a little nudge, thats it.

Orchestras and metal bands are two totally different things to record. Metal is probably by far the most difficult in terms of mixing and getting tones to go well in the mix. Orchestras have all the different instruments in the range, you have the lower toned, deeper range instruments all the way up to the really high range instruments...there's no mixing involved, it's done "for you". With metal, like Jeff said, you have all this chaos and you have to make it all fit together nicely and clearly.

~e.a

 

[metalkingdom]

All that going on is going to be much harder to give every instrument its own sound space, as compared to a 4 piece drum kit, simple jazz bass, and a telecaster with Willy Nelsons vocals.

That's insane. Willy Nelson will tear your fucking head off if you don't get his vocals right. That's why his engineers get paid a shitload of money to do what they do.

It's hard to mix any kind of music. Metal isn't any tougher than country or anything else. Chadsxe said it right - every type of music brings it's own set of challenges.

Mixing isn't about clarity.

For orchestral and symphonic recordings, I've never seen anyone use just two mics for anything larger than a quartet. Even for a live recording most serious symphony halls have at least 3 mics. The decca tree with spot-mics is probably the most widely used device/technique on a soundstage.

 

[trym^^]

mh im with metalkingdom here, metal aint harder than any
other genre. with metal you have a certain sound that everyone
goes for, the difficulty to get there aint probably much higher
than creating a style within popmusic which is more open
to changes. plus with metal and this inyourface-sound
theres less room for instruments to evolve and sound in
their full tonal range. you cut alot to avoid tracks fighting
in favor of clarity. with other styles like country for example
you need to care alot more about nuances, which can be fun
but also hard to get right.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I've always felt like metal requires a lot more tweaking to get right. Every element of the mix generally fights to sound like the biggest part, so you've got to make them all happy together. In a softer, more roomy sounding recording, there's just more space to work with and I think that because of that, you generally have to invest less time to get things to sit right together. In a way, I think that metal is more difficult to mix, just because it takes more practice to get it sounding perfect. I think people have trouble with metal also, because a lot of the time it requires extreme EQing to make something sound "metal"...the kick drum for example- I find myself taking a fatty scoop out of the low mids, while in a country mix those low mids wouldn't sound so bad there. The clicky metal attack doesn't really sound all that natural either, compared to how a kick drum sounds when you're standing in a room with it. I guess I'm trying to say that metal requires a much less natural sounding approach than most other genres do...and because of that, many people have a harder time grasping it.

I'm done babbling.

 

[A Toolish Circle]

i find metal easier to mix personally cos like kazrog says there's a certain set of best practises that u can follow to achieve a good mix , plus i work with metal bands most of the time and i play metal myself so it's easier to understand what i need to do whereas for other sorts of music i 'm not too sure how to achieve some sounds or a certain vibe

 

[Ermz]

It really depends where your roots lie. I'm sure metal would be quite mind-boggling for some to mix because they are used to artists that virtually mix themselves. However when a metal engineer goes over to doing a jazz or blues trio, he may have no concept of the word 'vibe' and make everything sound too cut and clinical.

Everything has its own challenges and 'best practices'.

 

[sparkyness]

i think metal is one of those genres where the word "compromise" needs to come into the equation. You've got a very "butch" shitfight on your hands between a wall of guitars, thundering drums, and the guy who usually loses out....the grinding bass player. Because each of those instruments tread on each other's toes in terms of frequencies, something has to give. That's why a lot of those late 80s bands came out with the "click kick", simply so you can hear the thing. Now that hi-fi's, ipods and car stereos are far better equipped to handle bass frequencies, there are more options available. Sometimes that causes more problems than anything though....

 

[smy1]

Mixing isn't about clarity.

Very true. If you start producing/mixing records, all you worry about is clarity and tones. The longer you do it, the more you start to worry about the "vibe" and "feel". So what if the kickdrum isn't clear ... if the whole mix stomps you into the ground like a wrecking ball, then it doesn't matter at all! Just like the clearest mix is very boring if it has no power and energy ...

 

[Glenn Fricker]

It's hard to mix any kind of music. Metal isn't any tougher than country or anything else. Chadsxe said it right - every type of music brings it's own set of challenges.

Agreed. I've done a fair bit of work with Celtic bands, and although it's not really my cup of tea, it's still enjoyable because it's challenging. Besides, mixing seven Bodhrans together creates thunder like you've never heard!

 

[sparkyness]

not to mention getting all that bottom end bleed from the constant Riverdancing