Torniojaws
They call me Juha
Closed headphones ftw
Or just get a stunt guy to move the mic around while you sit in the monitoring room.
Is micing the Dustcap Edge a myth (Mesa OS)?
- Thread starter GuitarHack
- Start date
Closed headphones ftw
Or just get a stunt guy to move the mic around while you sit in the monitoring room.
@TheDude
I have had both Mesa cab's now next would have to be the ENGL.
@Joe
I am talking about 50% on the dustcap and 50% on the cone. I find the "fix" to eliminating the grainy sound is to have about 25% (or less) on the dustcap and the majority on the cone but this can give some weird mids.
@s34nsm411
Great tip dude. Thanks. Now I need a long headphone extension cable.
@DevilJaw
Trust me I have spent many hours with various mic positions. Some times I am mostly satisfied and sometimes not.
@Torniojaws
It definitely sounds like the way to go. By the way, every time I read any of your posts I imagine your avatar is saying it to me,
. That dog has a funky voice.
Well I rediscovered today that different DI tracks can yield vastly different results and some faith in the OS Cab has been restored. Thanks to a DI from Ed I am getting closer to a tone I am happy with. I deliberately placed the mic 50/50 Dustcap/Cone and tried them out with various gain settings. Still some finetuning required but definitely on the right path, so thanks Ed. Now I have to record my DI's better.
Cheers for the help
This forum pwns (damn I hate that term, but it was called for in this case)
If Ed is OK with me posting the results I will. At this stage it is only one side/track but if you turn one monitor off
you can imagine one side playing
I have had both Mesa cab's now next would have to be the ENGL.
@Joe
I am talking about 50% on the dustcap and 50% on the cone. I find the "fix" to eliminating the grainy sound is to have about 25% (or less) on the dustcap and the majority on the cone but this can give some weird mids.
@s34nsm411
Great tip dude. Thanks. Now I need a long headphone extension cable.
@DevilJaw
Trust me I have spent many hours with various mic positions. Some times I am mostly satisfied and sometimes not.
@Torniojaws
It definitely sounds like the way to go. By the way, every time I read any of your posts I imagine your avatar is saying it to me,
. That dog has a funky voice. Well I rediscovered today that different DI tracks can yield vastly different results and some faith in the OS Cab has been restored. Thanks to a DI from Ed I am getting closer to a tone I am happy with. I deliberately placed the mic 50/50 Dustcap/Cone and tried them out with various gain settings. Still some finetuning required but definitely on the right path, so thanks Ed. Now I have to record my DI's better.
Cheers for the help
This forum pwns (damn I hate that term, but it was called for in this case)
If Ed is OK with me posting the results I will. At this stage it is only one side/track but if you turn one monitor off
you can imagine one side playing 
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
I usually have the 57 on the cap a bit to the side so that the outer edge of the mic is building one line with the edge of DC. than a beyer m160 right next to it, pretty much center of DC but of axis..phase aligned.
if I'm feeling fancy I might add an md421 on another speaker and if I'm recording anything not "modern metal" I might throw a neumann or 414 in as a room mic.
but....
there are no rules here...
90% of my stuff I did with just one sm57 (in a slightly different position)...and next week I might perhaps have another fav position for the mic or may even replace a mic with a 906 or neumann
if I'm feeling fancy I might add an md421 on another speaker and if I'm recording anything not "modern metal" I might throw a neumann or 414 in as a room mic.
but....
there are no rules here...
90% of my stuff I did with just one sm57 (in a slightly different position)...and next week I might perhaps have another fav position for the mic or may even replace a mic with a 906 or neumann
I saw from pics Mr Sneap posted ages ago in a Krank micing thread that the position of the 57, while still aiming at the edge of the dustcap, is not totally straight, there's a bit of an angle, I guess it smoothens the mids ?
Lasse, that's interesting. So the 57 is more or less on the cone only. It's good to hear others are having similar experiences with different cab's also. I had the impression that the majority of guys were micing the dustcap or at worst the join and not any further away from centre with the 57. I understand the "no rules" thing but I was so fixated on getting it to sound right mic'd 50/50 Cap/Cone.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
Lasse, that's interesting. So the 57 is more or less on the cone only. It's good to hear others are having similar experiences with different cab's also. I had the impression that the majority of guys were micing the dustcap or at worst the join and not any further away from centre with the 57. I understand the "no rules" thing but I was so fixated on getting it to sound right mic'd 50/50 Cap/Cone.
Thanks for the info.
nope, usually the 57 is on the CAP only touching the joint.
In that position I need the m160 though to smoothen it out (the 57 in that position alone is to edgy and grainy for my taste most of the time).
the position the ribbin is in would be nothing but earpiercing for a 57 but sounds smooth and round with the m160 (lately, I even found myself considering the 160 to be the main or even only mic....it just sound soooo smooth.
Sly
I just looked at the pics you are talking about and if that mic was straight it definitely looks like it wouldn't be on the dustcap much/if at all. I think by angling it back towards the dustcap it will capture some of the highs/fizz indirectly in a nice way.
Thanks for the reminder about those pics I had forgotten about them.
I just looked at the pics you are talking about and if that mic was straight it definitely looks like it wouldn't be on the dustcap much/if at all. I think by angling it back towards the dustcap it will capture some of the highs/fizz indirectly in a nice way.
Thanks for the reminder about those pics I had forgotten about them.
Lasse
Oops I misunderstood.
I thought it was on the cone with the edge of the mic on the edge of the join. I would be interested in hearing the m160 by itself.
My ideal guitar tone is Devil Driver - Fury of our makers hand. It is just so damn nice. After a recent post by Mark "Axeman720" Lewis regarding Colin's mixing technique I am assuming a LOT of EQ was involved to get it but it must have started with a great raw guitar tone.
Oops I misunderstood.
I thought it was on the cone with the edge of the mic on the edge of the join. I would be interested in hearing the m160 by itself.My ideal guitar tone is Devil Driver - Fury of our makers hand. It is just so damn nice. After a recent post by Mark "Axeman720" Lewis regarding Colin's mixing technique I am assuming a LOT of EQ was involved to get it but it must have started with a great raw guitar tone.
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
Lasse
Oops I misunderstood.
My ideal guitar tone is Devil Driver - Fury of our makers hand. It is just so damn nice. After a recent post by Mark "Axeman720" Lewis regarding Colin's mixing technique I am assuming a LOT of EQ was involved to get it but it must have started with a great raw guitar tone.
If I find the time I'll upload separate m160 sm57 md421 tracks of my currently miced cab.
I really think somebody should do a huge sticky thread on speaker mic'ing. Seriously.
Have tons of pictures available with sound clips, showing what the differences really are with sight and sound. It would have to be pretty elaborate to offer any kind of useful info, IMO...so whoever does it needs to have quite a bit of time on their hands
@Marcus: The newest one sounds killer, really diggin it. Can't wait to get mine. The first one I had to side with everyone else, had a real cloudy midrange thing going on, but was a good start considering you were most like really anxious to get a clip up
The second one, though, is a big improvement.
~006
Have tons of pictures available with sound clips, showing what the differences really are with sight and sound. It would have to be pretty elaborate to offer any kind of useful info, IMO...so whoever does it needs to have quite a bit of time on their hands
@Marcus: The newest one sounds killer, really diggin it. Can't wait to get mine. The first one I had to side with everyone else, had a real cloudy midrange thing going on, but was a good start considering you were most like really anxious to get a clip up
The second one, though, is a big improvement.~006
Hey Lasse, I'm finishing a mix right now and we used the Powerball for guitars, here it is :
Download here
Can you tell me what you think ? I had to cut tons of high mids/fizz and the muddy low mids too, to achieve this sound. It's not perfect but I think it's much more balanced now.
This goes to the mastering tomorrow morning. No vocals, no toms yet.
Cab was my Bogner Uberkab, V30 miced with 57 and Royer.
Download here
Can you tell me what you think ? I had to cut tons of high mids/fizz and the muddy low mids too, to achieve this sound. It's not perfect but I think it's much more balanced now.
This goes to the mastering tomorrow morning. No vocals, no toms yet.
Cab was my Bogner Uberkab, V30 miced with 57 and Royer.
J.DavisNJ
\m/
GuitarHack, one thing I've noticed is that the TINIEST adjustments of a 57 will have really different results. I had the same mindset about the 50/50 rule at first too. Then I started making small movements, while also tweaking the amp slightly. My current tone is barely touching the dustcap, but I think I might move it to the left just a tiny amount. I need a tad more brightness in my tone.
Also, I think the preamps we use, coupled with the gain settings, affect our tone more than we think. I have a Firebox, which I dig, but I could probably benefit from some better pres at some point.
Sly, I'm gonna check that song out when I am home...My work computer is slow and crappy. Looking forward to it though.
-Joe
Also, I think the preamps we use, coupled with the gain settings, affect our tone more than we think. I have a Firebox, which I dig, but I could probably benefit from some better pres at some point.
Sly, I'm gonna check that song out when I am home...My work computer is slow and crappy. Looking forward to it though.
-Joe
Hey Joe, yeah please tell me what you think of my mix via PM
I think Joe is right, mic position will change your sound so much, it think it's really a matter of "luck" and time also (even if sometimes the best mic position is the first one lol).
A good mic pre will work better of course, it will add colour in a good way, enhancing some frequencies and harmonics too, but one thing I noticed recently is that a great converter helps a lot ! A friend of me bought a Mytek converter 6 months ago, he was used to his Firepod and the difference was... stellar. Even if guitars do not have the most noticeable transients, their dynamic range is a lot more respected with a great converter : larger, wider, deeper. I just bought a Lavry AD10 so I can do an AB test with some cheap converters as soon as I receive it.
I think Joe is right, mic position will change your sound so much, it think it's really a matter of "luck" and time also (even if sometimes the best mic position is the first one lol).
A good mic pre will work better of course, it will add colour in a good way, enhancing some frequencies and harmonics too, but one thing I noticed recently is that a great converter helps a lot ! A friend of me bought a Mytek converter 6 months ago, he was used to his Firepod and the difference was... stellar. Even if guitars do not have the most noticeable transients, their dynamic range is a lot more respected with a great converter : larger, wider, deeper. I just bought a Lavry AD10 so I can do an AB test with some cheap converters as soon as I receive it.
J.DavisNJ
\m/
Hey Joe, yeah please tell me what you think of my mix via PM
I think Joe is right, mic position will change your sound so much, it think it's really a matter of "luck" and time also (even if sometimes the best mic position is the first one lol).
A good mic pre will work better of course, it will add colour in a good way, enhancing some frequencies and harmonics too, but one thing I noticed recently is that a great converter helps a lot ! A friend of me bought a Mytek converter 6 months ago, he was used to his Firepod and the difference was... stellar. Even if guitars do not have the most noticeable transients, their dynamic range is a lot more respected with a great converter : larger, wider, deeper. I just bought a Lavry AD10 so I can do an AB test with some cheap converters as soon as I receive it.
Will do man.
You need to post some 5150 clips, raw & processed, when you receive that converter dude.
-Joe
Of course I will 
can't wait to receive it !
I'm going to try to make a Powerball to sound great too ahah
can't wait to receive it !I'm going to try to make a Powerball to sound great too ahah
J.DavisNJ
\m/
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
I've just uploaded the tracks (57, m160, 421)...
playing is a bit sloppy and I didn't fuck with the ampsettings etc that much, but it should be good enough to see how those mics blend.
I'll send the link via PM, so if anyone is interesteddrop me a pm and I'll reply with the link.
playing is a bit sloppy and I didn't fuck with the ampsettings etc that much, but it should be good enough to see how those mics blend.
I'll send the link via PM, so if anyone is interesteddrop me a pm and I'll reply with the link.
Uh oh, Gearslutz alert!! WEE-OOO WEE-OOO WEE-OOO!!
Rule of thumb - if you can't get a good mic'ed tone, buying better pro audio gear is not gonna help! I say "pro audio" because perhaps buying a new amp/cab will help, except that given the fact that it doesn't get more tried and true than a 6505 through a Mesa OS, well...
LSD-Studio
HCAF crusher
Uh oh, Gearslutz alert!! WEE-OOO WEE-OOO WEE-OOO!!
Rule of thumb - if you can't get a good mic'ed tone, buying better pro audio gear is not gonna help! I say "pro audio" because perhaps buying a new amp/cab will help, except that given the fact that it doesn't get more tried and true than a 6505 through a Mesa OS, well...
true...BUT
a good preamp and converter definitely improves the already good tone by quite a bit
(I'm in love with API into Apogee
)
