Is this guitar tone too muddy?

[AntonioPetrole]

I've been reamping for about 4 hours now trying to find a clean and punchy tone. All I get is messiness and it's driving me nuts, I'm really considering selling the 5150 combo and getting a 5150 III. I did some EQ'ing and I can't tell if I like it or hate it. This is my last time reamping this track because I'm sick of it

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/Fuck.mp3

It's just the reamps + eq over the backing track so don't expect brilliance. Also the lead track has some stuffy mids fighting with the other guitars so I'm aware I need to tame that.

Also I'll be uploading the stems to this once I track vocals so yeaah

5150 -> Framus Cobra Cab V30's -> SM57 (no boost, I want to throw my TS9 off a building right now, it does nothing but make things worse)

 

[GuitarHack]

First thought is that it is Overgained. Can you give some amp settings and an idea of mic placement?

 

[Mashreef]

+1 overgained

 

[AntonioPetrole]

First thought is that it is Overgained. Can you give some amp settings and an idea of mic placement?

Sure. Amp settings were around

Pre- 5.6
Low- 8
Mid- 2
High- 5.5
Presence- 5
Resonance-8

If I make the gain any lower it completely loses any punch that it has and it's super frustrating.

Mic was about an inch off the dustcap and an inch from the grill

 

[Ericlingus]

it does sound messy a little cloudy to me. Maybe try lowering the gain and raising the presence a little? Post an example with a tube screamer as well. I'm having trouble myself getting a good miked tone so what the hell do I know.

 

[Vicioushead]

Yes, it sounds cloudy. I can't really offer any help though, sorry.

 

[GuitarHack]

^^that is what I was going to suggest, in a nutshell. (ericlingus post)

I think it is a combination of things. With the Mic off the dustcap completely you will get a duller/flatter tone as you would know. So it seems you are trying to get some Punch back by using a high Gain setting which is actually making it less defined. With my 6505 I always found that the Pres had to be between 8 and 8 1/2 to open up and not sound cloudy/muffled. To get a more defined tone maybe try moving the mic back closer to the Dustcap, 50% Cap/50% Cone as a starting point (you can finetune from there), lower the Gain and Raise the Pres. Lowering the Gain should give your definition back, that mic position should give some more punch and the Pres will remove the cloudiness. In theory.

Typical starting point setttings on the Head (I know the combo is a little different) for me were:

Lead Channel (out of 10):

Gain 2 - 3
Low 7
Mid 2
High 6
Post 2 - 3
Res 7
Pres 8 1/4

Always started with the mic 50/50 cap/Cone and went from there.

I hope my dribble helps.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

^^that is what I was going to suggest, in a nutshell. (ericlingus post)

I think it is a combination of things. With the Mic off the dustcap completely you will get a duller/flatter tone as you would know. So it seems you are trying to get some Punch back by using a high Gain setting which is actually making it less defined. With my 6505 I always found that the Pres had to be between 8 and 8 1/2 to open up and not sound cloudy/muffled. To get a more defined tone maybe try moving the mic back closer to the Dustcap, 50% Cap/50% Cone as a starting point (you can finetune from there), lower the Gain and Raise the Pres. Lowering the Gain should give your definition back, that mic position should give some more punch and the Pres will remove the cloudiness. In theory.

Typical starting point setttings on the Head (I know the combo is a little different) for me were:

Lead Channel (out of 10):

Gain 2 - 3
Low 7
Mid 2
High 6
Post 2 - 3
Res 7
Pres 8 1/4

Always started with the mic 50/50 cap/Cone and went from there.

I hope my dribble helps.

Thanks everyone! And thanks Guitarhack for that wealth of info. I guess time to hit the reamps once more. I'll post back tonight once I have done them

 

[Vicioushead]

if you could closer to that track in your sig it'd sound pretty awesome IMO.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

updated clip. Used less gain and put the mic about 75 cone 25 dustcap. Sounds brittle as fuck and has no definition. Used settings close to what guitarhack posted but used the TS and bumped the gain up to 4 in this clip as opposed to the recommended 2-3. Maybe the output on my JCR is too low? The signal sounds starved to me

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/Deathcore Songs/Less gain.mp3

 

[Ericlingus]

I think it's much better! Doesn't sound brittle to me.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

updated. It's shit, I'm over it

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2113488/REREAMP.mp3

 

[ArthurD]

The last one sounded nice... But it is still cloudy. How was this played? Did you edited the guitars?
Double or Quad tracked? I cant hear the bass too

 

[AntonioPetrole]

It was played by myself with a SC607-b and edited. Guitar -> Countryman Type 85 -> Profire 610

Reamp for the last one was

Profire 610 line out -> Isa One Pre Line in -> Radial JCR -> TS9 -> 5150 -> Framus Cobra Cab V30's -> SM57 back into profire. I was thinking it's partially because of the profire's past issues with not having a high enough output for reamping, that's why the ISA one is between the radial and profire. But i don't want to go blaming my gear. It could also possibly be my 5150. It's a 5150 original combo (although supposedly recently serviced by Rob(?) at Jaded Faith Mods when I bought it from him) and it kinda sounds like poop as far as being clear. It's more harsh and flubby. But then again, I don't want to go blaming my gear, I'm sure Sneap or Putney could get an incredible tone from it. I think there might be a signal loss between having to set the levels between the ISA One and Radial. I set the ISA as high as possible without clipping and the Radial to where the amp should be breaking up in the preamp stage. If any of that makes sense let me know

 

[GuitarHack]

REREAMP sounds tons better than the original. You can actually hear some crispness in the palm-mutes on the Left guitar at the start. I think you are moving in the right direction. If it isn't already, Max the Resonance to give some more punch.

If you think your JCR output is too low, plug straight into the amp and hit record and compare to the recorded reamp signal. Even record a new test riff DI and reamp it and compare to the recorded riff played directly in. Just make it a simple riff with some muted chords, sustained chords and single note. Reamp the DI signal back into the interface with the same Preamp gain you used to create it and compare the levels.

I have the JCR output set to around 3 o'clock and have compared it to playing the guitar straight in and get around the same level. What is your Interface? Are you sure you are outputting a Line Level Signal?

EDIT: Just read you have a 610, i was typing this when you were replying I guess.

Raise the Level of the DI in the DAW so that the peaks read close to -2 or -3dB before sending it out to the JCR.

 

[GuitarHack]

Make sure the Output you are using for Reamping does NOT have a cross in it. If it is checked, the Master Volume controls the Level. If it is unchecked, it will be Outputting at the Maximum Level.

I have a Saffire Pro 24 and I set my reamping output so that it is not controlled by the Volume Control and Outputs at Maximum level.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

I did that when I first received my JCR. Maybe it's my shit cheap cables?

Edit: I didn't see your post above the mixer window one. I'm going to give it a shot I guess Wednesday because it's time for me to go to my girlfriends for the next 3 days. I'll keep at it and see what I can do. I think my main problem is that there isn't a position on the pre gain that has enough gain to give the guitars balls but isn't muddy. I had the resonance around 8 on that clip. Thanks for helping me guitarhack, you're a legend