It's all about balance this year....
- Thread starter Harvester
- Start date
Much as I thought.
Michael TEOF
Master Whorebot
I think we need to look more closely at our defintions of what "Progressive" Metal entails. While some would say only a band like Porcupine Tree or Pain of Salvation are truly "progressive" as in the artsy different for sake of being different way, I'm not that selective in my definition. At the same time, I'm not about to call a band like Mob Rules or Wolverine progressive.
Andromeda's Chimera and Zero Hour's Specs of Pictures Burnt Beyond were the only real Progressive Metal albums of 2006 - compare that to hundreds of power metal releases You could make a case for the Adagio, Devin Townsend, and Angra releases of 2006 as well -- as they had plenty of progressive rock kick to them. But even a band like Royal Hunt (Glenn's prog metal case) is more a neo-classical metal band with some progressive rock touches. I take everyon'es point on Redemption (so that's a 4.5/.5 instead of 5/0 ratio now?)
It sure as hell is NOT like it used to be with progressive metal. The glory days seem, sadly, long over with. I used to hope a great Dream Theater like band with immense lyrical depth, complex instrumentation and time changes would be good enough to headline. These days, I just hope to see a band like Angra again.
Still... I long for the days of a Prog Power with
Night 1
Yes
Dream Theater
Porcupine Tree
Labyrinth
Shadow Gallery
Night 2
Rush
Helloween
Rhapsody
Enchant
Falconer
Notice there are no returning bands. A guy can dream can't he? I'd pay 500 dollars a ticket for that show and maybe Glenn would break even with 900 tickets. But maybe Glenn wouldn't sell 900 tickets? OR would he... hmmm?
The Michael
Andromeda's Chimera and Zero Hour's Specs of Pictures Burnt Beyond were the only real Progressive Metal albums of 2006 - compare that to hundreds of power metal releases You could make a case for the Adagio, Devin Townsend, and Angra releases of 2006 as well -- as they had plenty of progressive rock kick to them. But even a band like Royal Hunt (Glenn's prog metal case) is more a neo-classical metal band with some progressive rock touches. I take everyon'es point on Redemption (so that's a 4.5/.5 instead of 5/0 ratio now?)
It sure as hell is NOT like it used to be with progressive metal. The glory days seem, sadly, long over with. I used to hope a great Dream Theater like band with immense lyrical depth, complex instrumentation and time changes would be good enough to headline. These days, I just hope to see a band like Angra again.
Still... I long for the days of a Prog Power with
Night 1
Yes
Dream Theater
Porcupine Tree
Labyrinth
Shadow Gallery
Night 2
Rush
Helloween
Rhapsody
Enchant
Falconer
Notice there are no returning bands. A guy can dream can't he? I'd pay 500 dollars a ticket for that show and maybe Glenn would break even with 900 tickets. But maybe Glenn wouldn't sell 900 tickets? OR would he... hmmm?
The Michael
mtndewqueen88
Mark the Music
You remind me of my mother when she cooks a delicious meal. "I'm SORRY, but this is SO GOOD!"
Be proud of yourself Glenn! You've done a great job.
Don't just 'admit' it - shout it 
zedowns
Member
What about Vanden Plas, Thessera, Wastefall, and Mindflow's new albums? I don't see those albums being anything but Prog Metal. Honestly I found this year to be amazing for Prog Metal, just so happened the majority of the great releases got little to no recognition at all.
SharkBlack
Member
SharkBlack
Member
Theandromedastrain
eyeloveprog(Ben)
Hehe, I know that Glenn will be pulling out all the stops when it comes time for PPX
He should start a small savings right now so when the time comes for PPX he'll have enough money for the most extreme bands I.E. Dream Theater, Yes, Fates Warning, Ayreon, Rhapsody, Dio(?), Tool (qualify?), etc.
He should start a small savings right now so when the time comes for PPX he'll have enough money for the most extreme bands I.E. Dream Theater, Yes, Fates Warning, Ayreon, Rhapsody, Dio(?), Tool (qualify?), etc.
Glenn, perhaps you misinterpreted my response. I was simply pointing out that there are plenty of prog bands out there as well as plenty of great releases from those bands in the past few years. I was in no way implying that these bands deserve headline status; i was just making an observation to counter the statement that the other poster made with regard to there being no balance between prog and power because of a lack of good prog bands/releases. I am glad to hear, however, that Mob Rules will play the festival one day as i really think they have shined with their last few releases, not to mention the great DVD that they recently put out.
This made me laugh.
An on an unrelated thought, there were plenty of quality prog metal releases in the past year. Mindflow, Thessera, Andromeda, and (my favorite) Mind's Eye are just a few laying around here on my desk. Just because a band doesn't sound like they're channeling Images & Words doesn't mean they're not prog metal. At least in my dumb opinion, anyway...
dt
mtndewqueen88
Mark the Music
Can I add Beyond Twilight's "For the Love of Art and the Making" to this list? I thought that CD kicked ass.
BenMech
student of the d'eh
That's a rather unfair reply.
Glenn said:
I understand the Royal C*nt (err, Hunt) problems, and the Crimson Glory problems (though Wade Black isn't doing anything?).
It would be nice if PP US lineups resembled Rene's PP Europe lineups once in a while. Maybe a band like the aforementioned Wolverine, or something like a Dead Soul Tribe rather than just another EuroPower Priest/Maiden clone (such as Primal Fear, Firewind). As I understood it, PP 8 was supposed to swing the pendulum back from the power sides. Sure I see what you mean by balance, but the bell seems locked to one side, as if anyone who likes the other side of the equation (the progressive or avant garde) just gets a doorslam time and time again.
It may not be the selling point to"the core speedmelody audience" but it would bring in a great deal of people who have either dropped back continuously over the years, or push people from outside looking for the edge.
I assume you missed his previous posts critical of my slotting including Virgin Steel and Vision Divine. I may have been a bit harsh, but I can only take shots about the same thing from the same people so often.
As for your other point, I'm afraid that it becomes a matter of artistic chances vs. financial success. With eaching passing year, the critics become louder and louder and they bitch when I do book a band they have never heard before frequently. Booking a band with what I perceive as limited draw gives them more ammunition.
The bottom line is that I no longer do this just for the love of the music. This is business for me and I do treat it as such including booking bands that sell tickets. If I booked a roster similar to Europe in recent years, I doubt I would sell 1/2 of my tickets. That's not a swipe at Renee, but the reality of the scene here in the States in terms of travel, cost, etc. Those fans that you refer to are not going to travel to a festival for one band they like. They want multiple bands to make the trip worth the cost. If I do that, I burn my bridges with my regulars. I do not cater to the avant garde fan.
You and I have had this discussion before and nothing has changed my mind since then.
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
nailz
Member
One of the reasons I stopped whining about so many bands getting booked that I haven't heard of is because I simply do not have the time or energy to constantly explore the music scene like a lot of people here do. I simply go for the show now, and I love doing it, bands be damned.
HOWEVER, I think that more critics coming out of the woodwork are simply a testament to how big this thing is getting, and I'd take it as a positive-negative.
PriestMetalGods
Supersonic Hydromatic
I know I don't post too much on here, but this is a subject that really interests me. To start off, I have never been to a ProgPower as of yet. This will hopefully be my first one. I also apologize in advance if I seem to be ass kissing, cause i'm really not. Its just it seems to me that sometimes the prog/power community takes for granted what we have.
I mean I dunno how old a lot of you guys are. I'm 25 and i've been into the new wave of these bands since around 1997 or so(this does have a point to this thread I promise..LOL). Coming from traditional metal roots I wanted to see what else was out there. A friend of mine told me of these bands Blind Guardian and Rhapsody that would take the world by storm one day. I was like yea..a piss in the wind I say(not because of lack of talent..quite the opposite). I got heavily into these bands and more bands of this style..then I got into more progressive edged bands as well. During this time I would say the average age of a power/progressive metal fan was well in their 30's and there werent many fans around. They were old school metal fans looking for something new, but against the ways of the alterna/mallcore ways that plagued the states. These were metal fans apart of a cult like following..the thought of these bands touring just wasn't a possibility. The only bands during this time that toured were your American power metal bands like Nevermore and Iced Earth. Any sign of European power and prog acts touring here wasn't to be found at all. No one wanted to take a chance on these bands at all..mostly in a business sense..fear of losing money by bringing these bands on here. It was a tough situation because during this time our voice was still very minute and small. It was based on word of mouth and the internet..thats about it.
Flash to right now and we see things are very different. We have Blind Guardian on a very successful tour(I say only one because I feel that while it was very awesome to see them in 2002, it just wasn't what it was now..a more intimate setting back then though), Kamelot touring here twice, Sonata twice(now going for three), Gamma Ray, EdGuy twice, and finally a headlining Hammerfall tour. I'm probably missing some here too. To me, this is a big accomplishment. Also note that now power metal has more crossover appeal and a younger age range..with a lot of teens now into this genre. Aside from the retro cool crowd, these kids don't even understand traditional metal really. To me, I find that astonishing.
I also firmly believe that this fest helped build the momentum, hell even created it, for this genre of metal. I look at it as the gateway for these bands to emerge in the US. A lot of times the bands that play the ProgPower fest end up having their own tour(I understand their tours are usually planned before the fest appearances..years ago I don't think that was the case though).
Even though I have never been to a fest before, I always loved seeing what the lineup will be. It builds controversy, excitement, and most importantly anticipation for one's favorite band to be on there. Even if there are bands that you haven't heard of before on the fest, it makes you want to check them out. In the months that pass you realize these bands are great and end up being a new, great band in your collection(doesn't always apply as some people have different taste than others). It gives you a sense of urgency which is something that applies to a business(i'm a salesmen sorry for the analytical vibe there).
I don't always agree with the lineup, but I also don't have to go if I don't want to. I like the lineup this year, and I have the money to be able to go. So I will. If I had the money, and could spend it however I wanted, I would go even if I hated the lineup. A chance to be able to converse with people who are my own, who understand power and progressive metal..the way it used to be back in the mid 90s.
In closing I just want to say, don't take anything for granted. We've come a long way since the 90's. We have bands play here in the states now that were wet dreams back in that day. We're very fortunate to have been able to get this far. We will get further though, I truly believe it. Not that I want power metal to rise above the status of where it is now in terms of mainstream appeal..I just think that more bands will still come in time. You can't let your own fantasies become everyone's reality all at once. In due time, it will happen though.
I mean I dunno how old a lot of you guys are. I'm 25 and i've been into the new wave of these bands since around 1997 or so(this does have a point to this thread I promise..LOL). Coming from traditional metal roots I wanted to see what else was out there. A friend of mine told me of these bands Blind Guardian and Rhapsody that would take the world by storm one day. I was like yea..a piss in the wind I say(not because of lack of talent..quite the opposite). I got heavily into these bands and more bands of this style..then I got into more progressive edged bands as well. During this time I would say the average age of a power/progressive metal fan was well in their 30's and there werent many fans around. They were old school metal fans looking for something new, but against the ways of the alterna/mallcore ways that plagued the states. These were metal fans apart of a cult like following..the thought of these bands touring just wasn't a possibility. The only bands during this time that toured were your American power metal bands like Nevermore and Iced Earth. Any sign of European power and prog acts touring here wasn't to be found at all. No one wanted to take a chance on these bands at all..mostly in a business sense..fear of losing money by bringing these bands on here. It was a tough situation because during this time our voice was still very minute and small. It was based on word of mouth and the internet..thats about it.
Flash to right now and we see things are very different. We have Blind Guardian on a very successful tour(I say only one because I feel that while it was very awesome to see them in 2002, it just wasn't what it was now..a more intimate setting back then though), Kamelot touring here twice, Sonata twice(now going for three), Gamma Ray, EdGuy twice, and finally a headlining Hammerfall tour. I'm probably missing some here too. To me, this is a big accomplishment. Also note that now power metal has more crossover appeal and a younger age range..with a lot of teens now into this genre. Aside from the retro cool crowd, these kids don't even understand traditional metal really. To me, I find that astonishing.
I also firmly believe that this fest helped build the momentum, hell even created it, for this genre of metal. I look at it as the gateway for these bands to emerge in the US. A lot of times the bands that play the ProgPower fest end up having their own tour(I understand their tours are usually planned before the fest appearances..years ago I don't think that was the case though).
Even though I have never been to a fest before, I always loved seeing what the lineup will be. It builds controversy, excitement, and most importantly anticipation for one's favorite band to be on there. Even if there are bands that you haven't heard of before on the fest, it makes you want to check them out. In the months that pass you realize these bands are great and end up being a new, great band in your collection(doesn't always apply as some people have different taste than others). It gives you a sense of urgency which is something that applies to a business(i'm a salesmen sorry for the analytical vibe there).
I don't always agree with the lineup, but I also don't have to go if I don't want to. I like the lineup this year, and I have the money to be able to go. So I will. If I had the money, and could spend it however I wanted, I would go even if I hated the lineup. A chance to be able to converse with people who are my own, who understand power and progressive metal..the way it used to be back in the mid 90s.
In closing I just want to say, don't take anything for granted. We've come a long way since the 90's. We have bands play here in the states now that were wet dreams back in that day. We're very fortunate to have been able to get this far. We will get further though, I truly believe it. Not that I want power metal to rise above the status of where it is now in terms of mainstream appeal..I just think that more bands will still come in time. You can't let your own fantasies become everyone's reality all at once. In due time, it will happen though.
SharkBlack
Member
ConnieOH
Metal Lover in Ohio
Mindflow!!! Mind Over Body has been in my CD player almost constantly lately. It kicks some serious ass.
I saw Dream Theater at the NY fairgrounds a few years ago. It wasn't the best show I've seen them put on.....but it was still awesome. Top to bottom they are one of the most technically gifted bands I have ever heard and toss in James' vocals and I'm a happy fan.
However, they were the opening band, which I did not get. They absolutely have the drawing power even here in the metal deficient states, to sell plenty of tickets. The band they were opening for was YES. Now don't get me wrong, YES has some decent music, but even in their heyday I don't think they compared to DT. And unfortunately their heyday was a long time ago. They weren't just bad but embarrasingly so. Immediately after having listened to the intricate musicianship of Dream Theater in particular, YES sounded like an out of tune jug band after a few too many bottles of moonshine.
Their name is big......but I truly hope that I never see them on http://www.progpowerusa.com/ .
yep, your right
and yet people still keep on bitching.
honestly, if there are a few bands on here you dont like DONT GO PEOPLE!
dont sit here and just try to spread your negativity towards the rest of us.
