Joey (really) singing Only

[motorpsycho]

Now they have a chance to build momentum with touring then release a thrash album and get their name back out there and put out a few records and do some extensive touring.

I'm hoping for that being the outcome. I guess they were trying to build from the Joey-effect back in 2005 as well, when the initial plan was to do a tour with both vocalists and then release a new album with Bush (according to how Charlie explained it in a recent interview).
It provided them with another major label release with No Hit Wonders (it was released on Island, wasn't it?) to build from as well.

I guess the problem back then was that it was a pure business desicion which, for a band, is not a particularly strong foundation for lasting stability.

It appears that Joeys second return is done with a bit more dedication and planning forward, the (slightly thin) evidence being that he has performed Only and Fight Em during the Big Four shows.

It could all go tits up again, though.
But I hope we'll see a new album being released next year.
They could call it "Worship Baby Steps"

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

I'm hoping for that being the outcome. I guess they were trying to build from the Joey-effect back in 2005 as well, when the initial plan was to do a tour with both vocalists and then release a new album with Bush (according to how Charlie explained it in a recent interview).
It provided them with another major label release with No Hit Wonders (it was released on Island, wasn't it?) to build from as well.

I guess the problem back then was that it was a pure business desicion which, for a band, is not a particularly strong foundation for lasting stability.

It appears that Joeys second return is done with a bit more dedication and planning forward, the (slightly thin) evidence being that he has performed Only and Fight Em during the Big Four shows.

It could all go tits up again, though.
But I hope we'll see a new album being released next year.
They could call it "Worship Baby Steps"

The one thing that has bothered me with this band the past 10 years or so is that everything they do is a business decision.... bad ones at that. I understand that being in a band like this IS a business. But at the same time if you try and do toooo many drastic 'business decisions' it will consume your time and as you can see will drag things out and ultimately fuck things up. They certainly had a 'buzz' in 2005 when Joey was on the reunion tour. They announced on stage there would be a new studio album. The crowds were pumped up. Then before you know it Joey is fired again and now there were rumblings about Corey Taylor being the new singer. He didn't pan out (thankfully), then they bring in some random guy Dan Nelson, he quits (gotta wonder why all of these singers don't want to be in the band). Bush declines to come back. Now they are back with Joey as they should have been after the reunion tour. What a wast of 6 - 7 years.

Even if they get 1 album out with Joey it is 1 more album than they would have gotten without him.

All of these singers disappearing / quitting / refusing to come back make you really wonder if there are some ego's in the band... I wonder who that would be. Or is it their managers? If it is management they need fired immediately. I have never seen such bad business decisions from a band in my life.

None the less I am very anxious for a new album and the tour with Slayer and Megadeth

 

[trickrtreat]

The one thing that has bothered me with this band the past 10 years or so is that everything they do is a business decision.... bad ones at that. I understand that being in a band like this IS a business. But at the same time if you try and do toooo many drastic 'business decisions' it will consume your time and as you can see will drag things out and ultimately fuck things up. They certainly had a 'buzz' in 2005 when Joey was on the reunion tour. They announced on stage there would be a new studio album. The crowds were pumped up. Then before you know it Joey is fired again and now there were rumblings about Corey Taylor being the new singer. He didn't pan out (thankfully), then they bring in some random guy Dan Nelson, he quits (gotta wonder why all of these singers don't want to be in the band). Bush declines to come back. Now they are back with Joey as they should have been after the reunion tour. What a wast of 6 - 7 years.

Even if they get 1 album out with Joey it is 1 more album than they would have gotten without him.

All of these singers disappearing / quitting / refusing to come back make you really wonder if there are some ego's in the band... I wonder who that would be. Or is it their managers? If it is management they need fired immediately. I have never seen such bad business decisions from a band in my life.

None the less I am very anxious for a new album and the tour with Slayer and Megadeth

Fuck, don't fire mgmt now. NO MORE DELAYS!!! Joey's in, and a new album is on the way. (Late?) Spring can't come soon enough. My only quesiton is: Will this new album make up for the lost years (2005 to 2011)?

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

Fuck, don't fire mgmt now. NO MORE DELAYS!!! Joey's in, and a new album is on the way. (Late?) Spring can't come soon enough. My only quesiton is: Will this new album make up for the lost years (2005 to 2011)?

lol. no doubt!

For me the lost years were from 1993 to the present. So that is asking a lot to make up for almost 20 years =)

 

[esloan]

lol. no doubt!

For me the lost years were from 1993 to the present. So that is asking a lot to make up for almost 20 years =)

I will always wonder what could have been. Had Anthrax just kept Joey and continued on the strength of PoT. It was, arguably, one of their strongest albums and was taking them in a bit darker, yet still heavy, direction.

I saw them on the Clash of the Titans tour that year with Megadeth and Slayer. All three bands were riding higher than any of them had before. Grunge hit and metal took a nosedive, yet Slayer and Megadeth continued on strong. Both of them have had multiple Gold albums since then.

Anthrax decided, unwisely as it turned out, not only to change their singer but completely change their style. Now look where they are. They are in the Big 4 in name only now. They fell off the map. The only thing that got them on this Big 4 tour was Joey coming back and nostalgia.

How big could they have been if they didnt go through that drastic change? At least as big as Slayer or Megadeth? Or bigger? They were always a tad more accessible than Slayer and Megadeth, so who knows?

 

[Anthrax_Mosher]

I agree again. To say Anthrax is not Anthrax without Bush is complete crap, and the fact that some people would sell their tickets because Joey is back proves that you are not an Anthrax fan. Anthrax was around for 11 years before Bush joined!

 

[Deege]

I will always wonder what could have been. Had Anthrax just kept Joey and continued on the strength of PoT. It was, arguably, one of their strongest albums and was taking them in a bit darker, yet still heavy, direction.

I saw them on the Clash of the Titans tour that year with Megadeth and Slayer. All three bands were riding higher than any of them had before. Grunge hit and metal took a nosedive, yet Slayer and Megadeth continued on strong. Both of them have had multiple Gold albums since then.

Anthrax decided, unwisely as it turned out, not only to change their singer but completely change their style. Now look where they are. They are in the Big 4 in name only now. They fell off the map. The only thing that got them on this Big 4 tour was Joey coming back and nostalgia.

How big could they have been if they didnt go through that drastic change? At least as big as Slayer or Megadeth? Or bigger? They were always a tad more accessible than Slayer and Megadeth, so who knows?

Why do people always say Megadeth didn't ever sell out or change their sound? People are forgetting that Countdown To Extinction, to Youthanasia, to Cryptic Writings got more and more and more commercial than they ever were, and then Risk...I understand why people like to forget Risk...but seriously. They changed their sound too, period.

Slayer's the only one who didn't.

And SOWN isn't as different from POT as all of the Joey fans keep claiming. Sure, there's some more commercial stuff on there, but it still has stuff like 1000 Points Of Hate, which really isn't much of a stretch from anything on the previous album.

Yeah, Stomp 442 was extremely different, I would agree with you there. But by 1995 it just wouldn't have fucking mattered even if they made a pure thrash record. No metal band was selling records in the mid 90's except Metallica and Pantera. And Pantera is the only one who didn't soften up their sound. Except Slayer - and Slayer's sales were at an all-time low. Megadeth still sold records but Youthanasia was a flop compared to Countdown (even though I love the album).

 

[esloan]

Why do people always say Megadeth didn't ever sell out or change their sound? People are forgetting that Countdown To Extinction, to Youthanasia, to Cryptic Writings got more and more and more commercial than they ever were, and then Risk...I understand why people like to forget Risk...but seriously. They changed their sound too, period.

Slayer's the only one who didn't.

Oh, I agree. I am not the world's biggest Megadeth fan. Matter of fact, I dislike almost everything after Rust in Peace. However, they never seemed to have as drastic a change in sound as Anthrax did after PoT. Of course, Anthrax's change was exacerbated by the change in vocalist but, nonetheless, it was drastic.

If you played PoT or Among the Living for someone that was not an Anthrax fan and then turned around and played SoWN, I guarantee that they would think it was two different bands. Even though Megadeth softened, you could always tell it was Megadeth.

Hell, I would be willing to bet if you just played an instrumental version of PoT and then SoWN, most would say it was a different band. It was a drastic change in sound.

 

[esloan]

And SOWN isn't as different from POT as all of the Joey fans keep claiming. Sure, there's some more commercial stuff on there, but it still has stuff like 1000 Points Of Hate, which really isn't much of a stretch from anything on the previous album.

Yeah, Stomp 442 was extremely different, I would agree with you there. But by 1995 it just wouldn't have fucking mattered even if they made a pure thrash record. No metal band was selling records in the mid 90's except Metallica and Pantera. And Pantera is the only one who didn't soften up their sound. Except Slayer - and Slayer's sales were at an all-time low. Megadeth still sold records but Youthanasia was a flop compared to Countdown (even though I love the album).

Untrue.

Divine Intervention was released by Slayer in 1995 and became their highest charting album ever. Everyone forgets about DI because it followed SitA, which was a classic, yet DI was very successful.

In 1998 Slayer released Diablous in Musica, which was a disappointment, yet it still charted high. It is probably the closest Slayer ever came to changing their sound. It was still successful, though not as successful as DI.

In 2001 Slayer released God Hates Us All, which despite having the misfortune to release on the same day as the 9/11 attacks, charted high. It was generally considered a return to form and sold more albums than DiM. It was successful as well.

Megadeth released Countdown to Extinction in 1992, which was their most successful album. Megadeth released Youthanasia in 1994, which was their fastest album to platinum status ever. In 1996 Megadeth released Cryptic Writings, which got to number 10 on the charts and had a single which charted higher than any Megadeth before it.

After that, Megadeth released Risk in 1998 which was a commercial and critical failure. This was Megadeth's most drastic change of sound and they paid the price for it.

Bottom line, your perception that "No metal band was selling records in the mid 90's except Metallica and Pantera." is patently false. Slayer, Megadeth and Metallica were all selling well. The only one of the big four that was not was Anthrax....

Care to guess why?

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

Why do people always say Megadeth didn't ever sell out or change their sound? People are forgetting that Countdown To Extinction, to Youthanasia, to Cryptic Writings got more and more and more commercial than they ever were, and then Risk...I understand why people like to forget Risk...but seriously. They changed their sound too, period.

Slayer's the only one who didn't.

And SOWN isn't as different from POT as all of the Joey fans keep claiming. Sure, there's some more commercial stuff on there, but it still has stuff like 1000 Points Of Hate, which really isn't much of a stretch from anything on the previous album.

Yeah, Stomp 442 was extremely different, I would agree with you there. But by 1995 it just wouldn't have fucking mattered even if they made a pure thrash record. No metal band was selling records in the mid 90's except Metallica and Pantera. And Pantera is the only one who didn't soften up their sound. Except Slayer - and Slayer's sales were at an all-time low. Megadeth still sold records but Youthanasia was a flop compared to Countdown (even though I love the album).

SOWN has almost zero comparisons to POT. Musically, vocally NOTHING.

 

[Deege]

Untrue.

Divine Intervention was released by Slayer in 1995 and became their highest charting album ever. Everyone forgets about DI because it followed SitA, which was a classic, yet DI was very successful.

In 1998 Slayer released Diablous in Musica, which was a disappointment, yet it still charted high. It is probably the closest Slayer ever came to changing their sound. It was still successful, though not as successful as DI.

In 2001 Slayer released God Hates Us All, which despite having the misfortune to release on the same day as the 9/11 attacks, charted high. It was generally considered a return to form and sold more albums than DiM. It was successful as well.

Megadeth released Countdown to Extinction in 1992, which was their most successful album. Megadeth released Youthanasia in 1994, which was their fastest album to platinum status ever. In 1996 Megadeth released Cryptic Writings, which got to number 10 on the charts and had a single which charted higher than any Megadeth before it.

After that, Megadeth released Risk in 1998 which was a commercial and critical failure. This was Megadeth's most drastic change of sound and they paid the price for it.

Bottom line, your perception that "No metal band was selling records in the mid 90's except Metallica and Pantera." is patently false. Slayer, Megadeth and Metallica were all selling well. The only one of the big four that was not was Anthrax....

Care to guess why?

Megadeth and Slayer were on record labels that stood behind them. And they may have charted high, but they fell off the charts rather quickly. And Countdown and Youthanasia and Cryptic were a huge shift for Megadeth in terms of their sound after Rust In Peace, in fact, moreso than the shift in sound from POT to SOWN.

 

[esloan]

Megadeth and Slayer were on record labels that stood behind them. And they may have charted high, but they fell off the charts rather quickly. And Countdown and Youthanasia and Cryptic were a huge shift for Megadeth in terms of their sound after Rust In Peace, in fact, moreso than the shift in sound from POT to SOWN.

And why was Megadeth's and Slayer's record labels behind them? Because they still had fan support and they still sold. Why was Anthrax's not behind them? Because their fan base had eroded and they did not sell. Why did they not sell? I will give you a guess.

And there is no way that Megadeth's shift in sound anywhere near as drastic as Anthrax's. Megadeth got more mainstream but was still, basically, thrash metal. Anthrax sounded nearly grunge on SoWN. It was a major shift.

The biggest shift Megadeth made sound-wise was, coincidentally, their worst selling album; Risk. Or maybe it was not a coincidence? Metal fans show little tolerance for major shifts in sound. As evidenced by SoWN and, to a lesser extent, Risk.

Both made a calculated risk when they changed sound. They hoped that they would only lose a few die-hard fans but make it up by picking up mainstream fans. They did not, in either case. However, Megadeth attempted to rectify their mistake and go back to a heavier sound, Anthrax did not. And now you see where both are.

And, by the way, those albums did not fall off the charts quickly, not by metal standards at least. Metal albums in any era tend to fall off the charts rather quickly because the die hard metal fans buy in the first week and metal albums dont tend to sell outside their fanbase often. Nonetheless, Metallica, Slayer and Megadeth were all successful in the early '90s, mid-'90s, late '90s and on. Anthrax was not after Persistence of Time. You can continue to try and deny that it was the change in style and John Bush that caused the downfall but it doesn't make it any less true.

The Bush era nearly killed Anthrax and, until recently, they were a shadow of what they once were as far as fan-base is concerned. It's not fair because there were some good songs in the Bush era and Bush is a great vocalist but thats the way it is. For most metal fans, Joey is the voice of Anthrax. Period. Full stop. End of story.

 

[motorpsycho]

SOWN has almost zero comparisons to POT. Musically, vocally NOTHING.

Not sure if i agree completely here.
Yeah, SOWN is different from POT. But, then again POT is different from previous albums. If SOWN had been released with Joey singing, I think I'd regarded the changes as natural progression rather than drastic changes in style...apart from "Only", that is, which is an obvious shot at mainstream recognition.

Imagnie "The Black Album" by Metallica being sung by a different vocalist. It would probably be hard to accept that it was still Metallica.

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

Imagnie "The Black Album" by Metallica being sung by a different vocalist. It would probably be hard to accept that it was still Metallica.

I think the Black Album was a disgrace to all heavy metal fans that were die hard Metallica fans. That was the album that forever ruined Metallica. I remember the day that album was release how excited I was to go buy it. I put it in my CD player and was in disbelief. After the epic ..And Justice For All which was heavy, fast, technical and just all around brilliant they simplified everything and went for a mainstream rock sound. It worked and payed them off big time. They grew larger than any band of the era but most of the true metal heads that supported them from the beginning were shunned. Obviously their career went to complete garbage MUSICALLY after that. But they still sold millions of albums and could tour with bands like Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit.

Back on topic... SOWN honestly has zero resemblence to POT. If Joey was still in the band that album would have never been made. They knew they wanted to change their sound and make a more 'grungy' sounding album. That was impossible to do with Joey on vocals, hence why they made the change. It worked for a minute but that minute went away and Anthrax fell off the face of the metal earth. They couldn't even sell out clubs at one point. Nobody gave a shit about Anthrax during the Vol. 8 and Stomp era's. They got a little buzz from WCFYA with the pop song "Safe Home" but thats about it.

I can garuntee you if they stuck with Joey and toughed out the early and mid 90's like Slayer, Testament, Pantera, etc they would have never fallen off of the map like they did.

It is sad that they literally had to almost disband because of it. If they didn't do the reunion tour they would have already been gone by now.

 

[Thrashard]

The only thing that got them on this Big 4 tour was Joey coming back and nostalgia.

the tour was announced long before Joey's return.

 

[spacebeer]

This is true, it was however a good idea to have Joey for these dates. Now I hope it lasts and they will release a good new album. I for one cannot wait!

 

[Thrashard]

Metallica, Slayer and Megadeth were all successful in the early '90s, mid-'90s, late '90s and on. Anthrax was not after Persistence of Time. You can continue to try and deny that it was the change in style and John Bush that caused the downfall but it doesn't make it any less true.

SOWN is one of their best selling if not their best selling record, the only Thrax album that reached a top-10-position in the charts, it sold millions of copies, so Anthrax with Bush on vocals was still commercially successful in 1993, IMO it went downhill after Spitz's departure in '94, the loss of a lead guitarist is a big loss for a metal band. SOWN sold about ten times more copies than Stomp and about 12 or 13 times more copies than Vol. 8.

 

[Thrashard]

I can garuntee you if they stuck with Joey and toughed out the early and mid 90's like Slayer, Testament, Pantera, etc they would have never fallen off of the map like they did.

agreed!

 

[spacebeer]

SOWN is one of their best selling if not their best selling record, the only Thrax album that reached a top-10-position in the charts, it sold millions of copies, so Anthrax with Bush on vocals was still commercially successful in 1993, IMO it went downhill after Spitz's departure in '94, the loss of a lead guitarist is a big loss for a metal band. SOWN sold about ten times more copies than Stomp and about 12 or 13 times more copies than Vol. 8.

SOWN was one of their best selling albums, but that's logically because it rode the path paved by the Joeythrax era and the huge success that the SOE and POT albums were. No internet and downloading back then, fans just had to run to the record store and buy the album if they were curious about a bands' new material.....

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

SOWN is one of their best selling if not their best selling record, the only Thrax album that reached a top-10-position in the charts, it sold millions of copies, so Anthrax with Bush on vocals was still commercially successful in 1993, IMO it went downhill after Spitz's departure in '94, the loss of a lead guitarist is a big loss for a metal band. SOWN sold about ten times more copies than Stomp and about 12 or 13 times more copies than Vol. 8.

This had nothing to do with the album itself. This album sold all of those copies because of the hype from the previous record, Persistence of Time and the extensive touring. Back then there was no internet. Many Metal/ Anthrax fans didn't even know John Bush joined the band prior to the release. The next album Stomp was the indication that the change in the line up and over all sound was not a 'hit'. Anthrax lost all of their momentum and it showed over the next 3 albums.

If they did another record with Joey it would have sold the same amount of albums purely based on the momentum they had. Hell they could have written a total piece of shit album with a chick singer and it would have sold almost as many.