Jon Schaffer: Open Mouth, Insert Foot

[Sir Exar Kun]

This is from a part of an interview posted on Blabbermouth. Anyone smell hypocrisy oozing from these comments?

(As a side note: I am a big fan of Iced Earth; I'm just not a big fan of Jon's vision sometimes.)

Tim was great to work with in the studio and from a stand point of performing live he was great as far as being an incredible vocalist but he was not a true believer in this band. It was a job for him and ICED EARTH is not about that.

Later in the interview.....

ICED EARTH is a vehicle for my songs, that is all it has ever been......
It has everything to do with management, record companies, booking agents, publishers. Those are the four things that matters with a bands success. It has nothing to do with Joe Blow on the drums, bass or guitar, it does not matter. If the machine is there and the product is there, which it always has been and every ICED EARTH album has sold well regardless of who is in the band.

So Tim is out as he was not a "believer" in the band, and was not totally committed. However, the "band" is nothing but a tool, and the players really don't matter??? Jon, ya can't have it both ways! Either you want someone who is integral to the band, contributes to the writing, the business, etc..... Or you want a mindless instrument who will do nothing but play the notes you write.

I don't have any real problem with either scenario. Yngwie has made a fine living out of scenario two, and made it work for him, and frankly so has Jon to this point. But don't try and dog Ripper for being the tool that you want!!!

Shenanigans, I say!!!

 

[Yippee38]

I suspect (without reading the article I can't know) that you are taking those two quotes out of context. In the first, he's explaining why he chose to replace Ripper. In the second he's talking about the music industry and promotion. I don't see a conflict. From his perspective, he wants members who are passionate about the material and about Iced Earth. From the industry's point of view, they don't give a damn who is in the band. The band is an asset to them.

 

[Savage Pumpkin]

I'll be honest here: Who really cares? Who cares what happens behind the scenes as long as the music is good? People concentrate too much on the politics of a band and forget its all about the music. Unless you are in the band Iced Earth, why even bother worrying about it?

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

Here's the full question from the interview regarding the musicians.

Metal Exiles: You have the Tim Owens thing but you have always had a revolving door. Do you think that has affected ICED EARTH at all or is it all Jon Schaffer's vision?

Jon: ICED EARTH is a vehicle for my songs, that is all it has ever been. People follow a band so they have this fantasy about how a band operates and how it must be but 99% of the time it is all horseshit because they do not know what the reality of it is. I did not start this band to be some egomaniacal rock star, I do not give a fuck about that. I do not give a fuck about being a guitar hero, those are not my goals. The guitar is a tool to write songs and ICED EARTH is a vehicle for my compositions. It has also been a series struggle especially in those first 13 years with Century Media. It was a situation that most bands would have broken up under. These are all things that people do not know about and they make judgments about them and it does not bother me. Anybody that has worked with me knows that I am very fair and loyal but there is a point that I do not put up with anybody's bullshit. At the end of the day it does not make a big difference. It has everything to do with management, record companies, booking agents, publishers. Those are the four things that matters with a bands success. It has nothing to do with Joe Blow on the drums, bass or guitar, it does not matter. If the machine is there and the product is there, which it always has been and every ICED EARTH album has sold well regardless of who is in the band. People in the industry know that the record is going to sell well anyway. It is one of those things that does not concern me and no it is not all about me but it is all about my songs.

I'll be honest here: Who really cares? Who cares what happens behind the scenes as long as the music is good? People concentrate too much on the politics of a band and forget its all about the music. Unless you are in the band Iced Earth, why even bother worrying about it?

Even though I started this thread, I agree with this quite a bit! The only drama that actually may have affected my enjoyment of the music was the Stratovarius saga. Or else, maybe the self titled album was really total shit and I just am blaming that on bias due to drama.....

 

[The Invisible Guest]

Jon deserves some shit for putting out largely boring material the past couple of years. I struggle to come up with one good disc when taking the best from the last two. I initially liked The Glorious Burden, but it had little or no staying power with me. I never reach for that disc today. It's almost at the point where they have the dreaded three strikes and you're out level .. as Horror Show was the last effort I still listen too on a somewhat regular basis.

Next time I hope Jon scraps the full concept idea, and just focuses on making 10 tracks that kick ass. With Barlow back in the band I am unable to totally rule out the idea that IE might have a great release left in the tank.


Britt

 

[ICEDEARTHFAN]

I regularly visit Iced Earth's website to see the latest post from Jon.Sometimes,I understand them and sometimes I don't.I think he is very passionate and very genuine about what he says and what he does,but maybe there are times when he doesn't explain things to the fullest extent for the fans to completely understand what his points are.I do know that the fact they came and played at ProgPower this year (after Glenn trying since practically day one to get it done) meant a lot to me and it shows the love and appreciation in Jon's heart for us(the fans).Whether I agree with everything he says or does is irrelevant as long as he continues to show he cares like that.

 

[PurpleCrayonWriter]

So Tim is out as he was not a "believer" in the band, and was not totally committed. However, the "band" is nothing but a tool, and the players really don't matter??? Jon, ya can't have it both ways! Either you want someone who is integral to the band, contributes to the writing, the business, etc..... Or you want a mindless instrument who will do nothing but play the notes you write.

I don't have any real problem with either scenario. Yngwie has made a fine living out of scenario two, and made it work for him, and frankly so has Jon to this point. But don't try and dog Ripper for being the tool that you want!!!

Shenanigans, I say!!!

There's a lot I could add to this discussion. But I'm not sure it's my place to do so.

I will say this: My wife and I hung out with Jon and Wendi over a weekend in January a few years ago. Jon and I talked on the phone a lot before and after that. (He wanted me to write the Iced Earth biography.) I think I got to know Jon pretty well.

Regarding the topic of this post, this much I know to be true: Iced Earth is a business. Jon is the business owner. As such, he will do what it takes to ensure that his business makes money. So if he perceives certain members of the business aren't toeing the company line, he will replace them -- just as any other CEO would. That is why, from the outside, it appears he is loyal to Matt one day, disloyal to him the next, loyal to Tim one day, disloyal to Tim the next, then loyal to Matt again. Fans see such activities as "shenanigans." Jon sees them as shrewd business moves.

There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It's good, old-fashioned capitalism. Iced Earth is Jon's business. He can run it any way he's sees fit.

As others have pointed out, so what? As long as he makes great music, who cares how dysfunctional the business appears to be?

Rule of thumb: When it comes to Iced Earth, it's best not to delve too deeply into the heart and soul of its owner. That way, you won't be swayed by his business decisions. All you need to know is: (1) Jon Schaffer will always do what's in his own best interests; that is, in the best interest of Iced Earth, and (2) Iced Earth continues to make great metal. If you know those two things -- and if you ignore the inner workings of Iced Earth, Inc. -- you will continue to enjoy Jon's music.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[DrkLrdViper666]

There's a lot I could add to this discussion. But I'm not sure it's my place to do so.

I will say this: My wife and I hung out with Jon and Wendi over a weekend in January a few years ago. Jon and I talked on the phone a lot before and after that. (He wanted me to write the Iced Earth biography.) I think I got to know Jon pretty well.

Regarding the topic of this post, this much I know to be true: Iced Earth is a business. Jon is the business owner. As such, he will do what it takes to ensure that his business makes money. So if he perceives certain members of the business aren't toeing the company line, he will replace them -- just as any other CEO would. That is why, from the outside, it appears he is loyal to Matt one day, disloyal to him the next, loyal to Tim one day, disloyal to Tim the next, then loyal to Matt again. Fans see such activities as "shenanigans." Jon sees them as shrewd business moves.

There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It's good, old-fashioned capitalism. Iced Earth is Jon's business. He can run it any way he's sees fit.

As others have pointed out, so what? As long as he makes great music, who cares how dysfunctional the business appears to be?

Rule of thumb: When it comes to Iced Earth, it's best not to delve too deeply into the heart and soul of its owner. That way, you won't be swayed by his business decisions. All you need to know is: (1) Jon Schaffer will always do what's in his own best interests; that is, in the best interest of Iced Earth, and (2) Iced Earth continues to make great metal. If you know those two things -- and if you ignore the inner workings of Iced Earth, Inc. -- you will continue to enjoy Jon's music.

Cheers,

Bill

Well said & Amen!!!! Jon Shaffer & Iced Earth Rule!!!!
And I totally support whatever Jon does for the sake of ICED FUCKIN' EARTH!!!!

 

[SeaStorm]

Also, you left out the context of the interview where he says that the lack of being a true believer was a problem for the business (he's implying fans could sense it), which is one way to square the two statements.

"Tim was great to work with in the studio and from a stand point of performing live he was great as far as being an incredible vocalist but he was not a true believer in this band. It was a job for him and ICED EARTH is not about that. The guys that were in the band before Matt were true believers in the band and the crowds went ape shit for them and there was a good feeling on stage. That was the thing that was missing and it became apparent to me that a change was going to have to be made."

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=110307

In my limited experience with behind-the-scenes band personalities and drama, everything put out for public consumption is far less than reality, so following it is like watching soap operas on TV = not worth your time. Enjoy the music.

 

[Diabolik]

Jon deserves some shit for putting out largely boring material the past couple of years. I struggle to come up with one good disc when taking the best from the last two. I initially liked The Glorious Burden, but it had little or no staying power with me. I never reach for that disc today. It's almost at the point where they have the dreaded three strikes and you're out level .. as Horror Show was the last effort I still listen too on a somewhat regular basis.

Next time I hope Jon scraps the full concept idea, and just focuses on making 10 tracks that kick ass. With Barlow back in the band I am unable to totally rule out the idea that IE might have a great release left in the tank.


Britt

Dear God....I agree with you 100%

 

[booB]

There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It's good, old-fashioned capitalism. Iced Earth is Jon's business. He can run it any way he's sees fit.

As others have pointed out, so what? As long as he makes great music, who cares how dysfunctional the business appears to be?

As long as they don't ask the government for a bailout, I agree.

 

[adaher]

When a band is essentially one person's vision, when that person complains that this or that member wasnt' devoted enough to the band, what that person really means is that that member wasn't devoted enough to him personally.

 

[PurpleCrayonWriter]

As long as they don't ask the government for a bailout, I agree.

I don't know whether to congratulate you on a joke well made...or cry because your quip is a little too true-to-life these days.

Can you imagine Jon sitting before Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and other Capitol-Hill muckitymucks, asking them for a bailout?

"And what is it you do, Mr., uh, Schaffer?" Frank would say in his best Elmer Fudd voice.

"Create ass-kicking metal," says Jon. "Like other great American metal bands."

"I think you overstate the number of great American metal bands," says Frank, getting a laugh from members of the press.

"You're right," says Jon. "I'm the only true American metal band."

He'd get his bailout -- as long as there were no strings attached. Jon hates strings.

Bill

 

[Matt Crooks]

<snip>: (1) Jon Schaffer will always do what's in his own best interests; that is, in the best interest of Iced Earth, and (2) Iced Earth continues to make great metal. <snip>.

After the last few albums, I'd say you are only 1/2 correct.

The latest Pyramaze disc is the best Iced Earth album since Something Wicked, IMO..

 

[Jasonic]

It is the year 2008 (almost 2009).
Why are people surprised or outraged by any of these comments?

Of course in this day and age, ANYONE (including Ripper) is a mere hired gun. Any professional musician is smart enough to know it. Furthermore, they have accepted it, so you should as well.

I am a big IE fan, but will certainly agree with everyone who cites the decline in the quality of the material. Britt was dead on. Enough of the concept albums. Focus on writing 10 solid songs.

 

[RagePSV]

I used to be a die hard IE fan. Waited till 2 in the morning to see them with 20 other people at DragonCon one year and have traveled from ATL to Cinncinnatti and Milwaukee to see them. This was all before Horror Show came out. Regardless of the members they have been on a gradual decline musically since The Dark Saga and the ONLY material after that, that I listen to semi-regularly is the Gettysburg trilogy.

 

[Pellaz]

I used to be a die hard IE fan. Waited till 2 in the morning to see them with 20 other people at DragonCon one year

Hey presto, I was there, too. Since I'm kinda big, though, I count as two people, so there were 21 people there.

 

[RagePSV]

Hey presto, I was there, too. Since I'm kinda big, though, I count as two people, so there were 21 people there.

Sweet! Small world. I was at tech from 95-99 as well

 

[General Zod]

I suspect Tim is out of the band for a few reasons:

1 - Jon had gotten all he could out of Tim's affiliations; bringing in some Priest fans who were unfamiliar with Iced Earth & using Tim's management (Wendy Dio) to land the Heaven & Hell tour
2 - Tim wanted to write, Jon didn't want him to
3 - Jon thought Matt would be better for business
4 - Jon & Matt are friends, Jon & Tim were business partners

Jon often contradicts himself from paragraph to paragraph in interviews, so the above contradiction should surprise no one. He's a passionate guy, given to declarative statements. However, Jon is also a guy in his mid-40s, with a wife and a kid. For him to view Iced Earth as something other than a business would be foolish.

Zod

 

[ICEDEARTHFAN]

I suspect Tim is out of the band for a few reasons:

1 - Jon had gotten all he could out of Tim's affiliations; bringing in some Priest fans who were unfamiliar with Iced Earth & using Tim's management (Wendy Dio) to land the Heaven & Hell tour
2 - Tim wanted to write, Jon didn't want him to
3 - Jon thought Matt would be better for business
4 - Jon & Matt are friends, Jon & Tim were business partners

Jon often contradicts himself from paragraph to paragraph in interviews, so the above contradiction should surprise no one. He's a passionate guy, given to declarative statements. However, Jon is also a guy in his mid-40s, with a wife and a kid. For him to view Iced Earth as something other than a business would be foolish.

Zod

Correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe Jon and Matt are family by marriage.I think Matt married Jon's sister or cousin or something like that.I think I read that on either the Pyramaze website or IE's website when the explanation of why Matt was coming back was announced.Like I said,I may be wrong on this,so somebody help me out if I am.