MATT BARLOW RETIRES FROM ICED EARTH

[skyrefuge]

We didnt know your last name or this would have come sooner.

Ah, ok, my first impression was correct then, you *are* as obsessed as I'd hoped, the problem was that you just don't know how to use a search engine! Type in my handle and it's literally 4 clicks to my photo. Or hell, just click on my profile here and you get all kinds of good info! That's part of why it was so funny that I was hiding in plain view!

Bob found it, not me.
I think he figured it out based on someone's friends list on FB.

Yeah, I know, I've participated in FB threads that you've *both* been involved in, but who put in the time to do the Photoshopping? I must know if the obsession is split equally!

To be honest, I seriosuly thought you were in your 40s or 50s!!!!

Due to my preternatural wisdom, no doubt!

Neil

 

[Jasonic]

Due to my preternatural wisdom, no doubt!

Yeah, something like that.................... :Smokedev:

Bob did the photoshopping.

I don't think either of us cared enough to actively seek you out.

The closest I guess you could say we came to anytihng like that was pointing out people at gigs, going, "Is that Neil?" Though we do that with a lot of people who we haven't met yet in person....

Bottom line is you have been identified, and are now an active member of the Axis.

 

[Diabolik]

Yeah, something like that.................... :Smokedev:

Bob did the photoshopping.

I don't think either of us cared enough to actively seek you out.

The closest I guess you could say we came to anytihng like that was pointing out people at gigs, going, "Is that Neil?" Though we do that with a lot of people who we haven't met yet in person....

Bottom line is you have been identified, and are now an active member of the Axis.

and the hamburgers are on Neil. Super Freinds Chicago!!!!

 

[Jasonic]

We're the three best friends anyone could have!

 

[Saladbar]

Ah, ok, my first impression was correct then, you *are* as obsessed as I'd hoped, the problem was that you just don't know how to use a search engine! Type in my handle and it's literally 4 clicks to my photo. Or hell, just click on my profile here and you get all kinds of good info! That's part of why it was so funny that I was hiding in plain view!

Yeah all 3 of you guys have replied to the same post o various occasions and I thought they would get to you sooner haha. Oh well, no more laughing in silence at shows.

 

[Saladbar]

If the band gets paid 80-100,000 grand per festival (which is pretty much how much a top-slot band gets paid in europe unless you're nightwish and you can ask for hundreds of thousands per festival -- these fests run on multi million euro budgets) over 10 festivals and maybe 10-15 grand per club show over 20 club shows and Barlow gets maybe 30% of that money, that is a decent living.

You think a band like Iced Earth gets paid 80-100,000 grand per festival?
Seriously?

 

[Artizan]

Yes, considering how much the band would have to get paid to do shows. Unless Jon takes all of the hundreds of thousands that the band grosses in from those gigs + merch, and I doubt Barlow would even be doing it if that was the case, I could imagine Barlow making about 60-80 grand yearly on IE as a rough estimate. If you also factor in mechanical and performance royalties, it's a decent living. I'm not sure how much a police officer makes in his state, but I'd wager being in IE means making about the same if not more, and certainly it's safer than being a full time cop.

WOW...you better let MATT know he has been swindled for his percentage of the hundred's of thousand's from gigs and merch............are you SERIOUS?

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I'll have to take your word for what bands are paid at Euro festivals, but I'll note that Iced Earth isn't really that close to the top of the bills of any of the fests it's doing this summer, except for Dong, which looks significantly smaller than ProgPowerUSA.

Yeah I don't know how IE gets paid either in exact numbers, but I'm taking a guess based on what I know about how the top tier bands are paid (broad stokes again, because every number is different, and of course I'll concede that), but it's more than enough to make a living. Otherwise, what's the point in doing it? Why hire crews, techs, etc? I mean in order to do what they're doing, bands of that size almost need to get paid that much.

Also keep in mind, some of the smallest European festivals like Metal Female Voices in Belgium draw like 5,000 people. So even the "small" fests in Europe VASTLY outdraw the ones here. Thus, you have a much larger number of ticket buyers, which affords festivals to have much larger budgets. A fest like Dong probably doesn't have a multi million euro budget, but Wacken? I'd guess they have like a 10-20 million euro budget give or a take.

I don't really know any details of how Iced Earth finances are broken down, and even if I did, I wouldn't repeat them here. However, I can post some quotes from Jon Schaffer interviews that may be instructive. Note that these are from ~2002, so things certainly could have changed over the years:

"I've worked with Matt and coached him through every single thing. Matt doesn't have the kind of personality that he would have done this if it wouldn't have been with someone behind him....As far as that goes, everybody is replaceable including Matt and he knows that. Does that mean I'm going to fire him next week? No, as long as he does a good job and works hard and is dedicated while doing the right things, then he's in. We have a very good relationship, he feels fortunate to be here. He knows it wouldn't be if it weren't for me. It's become a vehicle that he can do things he enjoys to do. He's a performer not a songwriter."

"Everybody in ICED EARTH is on contract. Nobody is a member or a "percentage owner" of the company, it doesn't work like that. As long as these guys work hard and stay focused and do their parts, I don't ask much… well, actually, I do ask a lot. I ask of 100% of all of them. Show up, do you parts, do your job, be reliable, and no drinking before the show, none of that kind of shit. Everything else is pretty cool. Then they have the vehicle to go out and play music in front of huge crowds and make money at something they always dreamed of doing. If they fuck up and cross that line to where it costs me money, causes headaches and problems, then we have problems. I think at this point though I've got a group of guys that have been around long enough that know this is a great opportunity for them."

"Well, I asked Larry to leave the band. There's not really a lot of space for lead guitarist in ICED EARTH, he doesn't really have a job to do. You know, solos is all that any lead guitarist in the band has ever done, and I record all other guitar parts.....I thought it would just be better for Larry, because with the involvement that he had, there's no guarantee for a good future for him in the band. So I said, 'Dude, it's better for you to just concentrate, go to school, get a career, forget about the music business.' He's just not made for it....Larry was a good guitarist, but creatively he didn't bring anything to the table. He did come up with a few cool solos, but that's it, and solos are not that important. You can't even copyright a guitar solo, it's not like you're gonna make a bunch of money playing guitar solos. You have to write songs."

Yeah I mean, if the model for how IE gets paid is by salary, then it still needs to be in like the 50-60 grand per year range unless like I said, Jon is really stingy or overpays his crew. However, the band does gross big money whether you like it or not, and if Matt isn't getting paid enough in the band, it's not a fault of the "scene" not making enough money as Stingray claimed it was, but the fault of a stingy band leader haha.

Eh? He'd get benefits as a cop if he continued to be employed as a cop, which would preclude him from being employed by this new revved-up version of Iced Earth. It's not like he can just say "hey boss, I'm gonna tour 6 months of the year and then be a cop for 6 months of the year, that's alright with you, right?"

I'm pretty sure they worked out the terms of his coming back to Iced Earth so that he can still be a cop. I recall reading that, and in fact, I remember reading that Jon said partly with regards to their lack of touring having to do with making some room for Matt to do his officorial duties whilst using vacation time for IE.

And it's not just health benefits, it's retirement benefits, and overall job security. Sure, the chances of being shot are probably higher for a police officer than heavy metal musician (though don't tell that to Dimebag, and you should check out the crime rates in little Georgetown, DE sometime), but it's still a "safer" job than one that could end any day when Jon decides to fire you or put Iced Earth to rest, and one that will almost certainly end before a normal retirement age.

Finally, maybe Manowar isn't the same as Iced Earth, but this is also instructive: http://www.themetalinquisition.com/2009/02/metal-inquisition-investigative-report_20.html

I've heard from a few friends that that metal inquisition article is actually fake. I've seen it and it's funny, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. Plus even if it was accurate, Manowar does like a show per year at the most. So if they get 150 grand to headline a big fest, that basically gets divided up among the crew and the band and that's it for the whole year. Not to mention that the show Manowar DOES usually do yearly is that Magic Circle fest (which I haven't even seen anymore) and that is run and promoted by the band themselves, so they probably don't even make much altogether from playing because of the costs to do that shit. This is all compounded by the fact that they don't have new material, got into countless lawsuits, probably have huge unpaid royalty issues with SPV etc. As opposed to playing 10-15 or even 20 fests and get paid 80 grand to be in a "headlining position" as in, not THE headliner, but one of the BIG last bands to play on the BIG stage that is responsible for bringing the majority of the tens of thousands of people who go to these shows' attendance, PLUS big club shows. IE probably gets like 10-15 grand a show to do those based on what I know of bands approx that size and how much they get paid.

That being said, situations ARE different from band per band, but like I said, my argument is that if you're going to complain that the scene is so bad that even the big bands can't make a living, then you have to have a damn good argument considering the numbers that these bands gross.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

WOW...you better let MATT know he has been swindled for his percentage of the hundred's of thousand's from gigs and merch............are you SERIOUS?

No, they gross 100 a night like the average opening band on a DIY tour does to play in front of tens of thousands of people and be the primary reason for their attendence. Sorry, my bad.

 

[ashaman7122]

Wow...it's amazing how these threads just seem to derail sooooo often lately...

Don't worry guys...I've got you all beat. MY dick's bigger.

 

[skyrefuge]

and if Matt isn't getting paid enough in the band, it's not a fault of the "scene" not making enough money as Stingray claimed it was

I disagree with Stingray's implication that the "scene" (particularly the "current scene") is the problem, because there was *never* a time when counting on Iced Earth to sustain you for your life was a sound financial decision. But that means I agree with his larger point that in terms of following a responsible long-term plan for you and your family, this was essentially a no-brainer decision for Barlow.

While Jon surely keeps the lion's share of Iced Earth's income, I've never heard of other members of Iced Earth being dissatisfied with their paychecks. I dunno, maybe Jon has them brainwashed or something, but I don't think many people playing in non-major-label metal bands *expect* it to produce enough income to sustain even themselves, much less a family. When I estimated that the band averaged 20 shows a year, I guess I should have indicated how erratic that was. They did *no* shows in 2003, 2005, or 2006. It wouldn't make sense for any business to have permanent salaried employees in that type of environment.

How many ProgPower-type bands are there where every member supports a family of 4 on their band income alone?

I'm pretty sure they worked out the terms of his coming back to Iced Earth so that he can still be a cop.

Yes. But did you actually read the initial press releases in this thread? At the time Jon invited Matt back, he intended for Iced Earth's touring going forward to be limited, and thus Matt would be able to do it in his off time. But the plan has now *changed*, and Jon apparently wants to do more touring than he originally envisioned, more than Matt's available time off would allow. Or who knows, maybe Matt also wants to use a bit of his vacation time for actual vacations.

I've heard from a few friends that that metal inquisition article is actually fake. I've seen it and it's funny, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I never figured I'd be able to tie the main line of this thread to the Chicago Axis tangent, but in contrast to Diasonic's inability to find photos of me on the Internet, tracking down people on the Internet is actually one of my greatest skills! So back when the Manowar thing was posted it was really interesting to me, and I'm pretty sure I looked up some of the real estate records myself, and it seemed to all check out. I'm sure some of the details are exaggerated for effect, but I think the basics are solid.

I'm pretty sure I even then tried researching public records for guys in other metal bands, but came up fairly empty, and my assumption was because so few guys in the US metal scene have enough money to even purchase property.

Neil

 

[skyrefuge]

Wow...it's amazing how these threads just seem to derail sooooo often lately...

Eh? What are you talking about? Nothing could be more on-topic for this thread than discussing whether metal musicians make enough money to support a family. That's exactly what the first post is about!

Neil

 

[Jasonic]

Eh? What are you talking about? Nothing could be more on-topic for this thread than discussing whether metal musicians make enough money to support a family. That's exactly what the first post is about!

Neil

Doesn't happen often, but I agree with you 100% on this one.
Actually, this topic is more on point than most, in digging deeper into the root of Barlow's return, as opposed to this discussion on other forums where people just yap about Ripper this and Ripper that...........

 

[ashaman7122]

I know, I know...it's just fun to watch the posts (and debates) grow...and grow...and GROW! in length with each page flip. Metalheads would make good lawyers.

 

[Diabolik]

I know, I know...it's just fun to watch the posts (and debates) grow...and grow...and GROW! in length with each page flip. Metalheads would make good lawyers.

not really....if the case got to big they would drop it.

 

[Jasonic]

not really....if the case got to big they would drop it.

Hahahaha, so true, so true......
So many examples I would love to post here, but it would piss off most ,and I would NEVER want to do that!

 

[nomisofsiman]

that sucks again! I still think they should never have let ripper get away. I mean isnt he leaving for the SAME REASON this time?

This. I still think it was an extremely shitty way to remove Ripper, especially when I pretty much figured this wouldn't last. I think now Jon has a tough task ahead of him though. I think the person he does pick has to be absolutely phenomenal, but at the same time, he needs to know that some will probably deny him because they don't want to go through what Ripper went through (since he came back once, doesn't mean he wouldn't try again). I am glad though that they didn't decide to record with Barlow and THEN decide to get a new singer. That would've been bad. I am curious to see where this leads them though.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Why? Given Ripper's track record, no one knows better than himself that he is a hired gun. Ripper did a great job in Iced Earth, as he did in Priest.

Though after those two stints, he sealed his own fate.

I would have to disagree with you there, Jason. Those two instances didn't seal his fate. He's still young enough to stay with a band, but for some reason the guy doesn't seem keen on sticking with one band. Then again, I guess that happens when you can't write your own music.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Actually, I'm sad that I never saw Ripper front IE. I actually really like "The Glorious Burden" and I would have liked to have seen that live.

Ditto.