Just Curious...Trad. Classical Composers?

[JesusChristPose]

Originally posted by Hannu Mutanen

Sibelius is also magnificent, especially "Finlandia." Awe-inspiring.

I love Finlandia, I have that on a digital recording with Sibelius's 2nd Symphony - both are great pieces of music.

 

[Heliologue]

ooh, yeah: classical's what got me into heavy metal...

sergei rachmaninov is my favorite: all his piano concerts, vespers, the bells, symphony 1, isle of the dead: it's all good.

gustav holst: this was my first experience with classical. "the planets" kicks so much ass, and it's where John williams got most of his musical ideas for Star Wars

jean sibelius: the first movement of his violin concerto in d minor is just GORGEOUS. also "valse triste".

aaron copland. his writing isn't particularly dark, but i rather enjoy the percussion-woodwind interplay. high points include "fanfare for the common man" and "appalachian spring"

 

[Lina]

forgive me for the rambling i'm about to do, but i've been wanting to get this off my chest...

i find it so fascinating and gratifying that others here realize the similarities between metal (well, Opeth at least) and classical music.

**Here's where the rambling begins**

Like I've said, I played piano very seriously growing up, but I hated it because it was forced on me by my dad. I was literally forced to practice 3-4 hours a day, do competitions, the whole deal. But I just didn't have the love for it that's necessary when you get to that level. But that didn't matter to my dad. So needless to say, that basically ruined our relationship.

So when I left for college, I stopped playing. Completely. For the first time since I was five. And aside from tinkering around with a three-octave keyboard, I haven't touched it in the four years since. I hope to one day, but for now I've still got "issues" with it.

BUT -- here's the good part. Like I said, all those years of music training have made my music search and listening so much more fulfilling. So there's one thing that I got out of all the torture.

And I would love to be able to share this music with my dad to show him that it wasn't all a waste, like he thinks. But he just refuses to listen, truly listen, to the music. He hears electric guitars and he decides it's not respectable music. And then when the growls come in...forget it!

I wish he could see the composers that people have mentioned on this thread. He has no idea that people with long hair who wear black might, just might, know more about classical music than him. It's so frustrating.

This board is my therapy.

 

[D Mullholand]

Originally posted by Lina
I've gone on this rant many times before, but here I go again. The first person who says they like Bach is OFF THE BOARD! Liking Bach is akin to liking Britney Spears. Both wrote emotionless music because they were being paid.

What you just wrote is of course pure Baudrillardism , could you expand more on how did the equation Bach=emotionless form in your mind ? For the record, I'm not Bach's biggest fan, and I don't claim 'Bach=genioos' just because everybody says that, but Emotionless ?

I love Chopin, Brahms, Rachmaninov, late Beethoven...mainly Romantic era stuff. Debussy is starting to cross the line into the more modern stuff that I just can't get into. It's like when I go to a museum and see a big blue canvas that's supposedly "art," and I think, "I could've done that." When every note is dissonant and there's no time signature, etc, it just starts to sound like random pounding.

Debussy - too modern ?

You *have* to listen to Schoenberg's 'Pierrot Lunaire'. Every note is dissonant, but it does *not* sound like random pounding. It's hard to get into, but there's a vast abyss of conflicting emotions hidden there, if I may be so bold, it's much more emotional and dramatic than most of those piano pieces by Chopin which I have heard.

D Mullholand
-------------------
NP: John McLaughlin - My Goals Beyond

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by D Mullholand
What you just wrote is of course pure Baudrillardism , could you expand more on how did the equation Bach=emotionless form in your mind ? For the record, I'm not Bach's biggest fan, and I don't claim 'Bach=genioos' just because everybody says that, but Emotionless ?

first let me say that when i wrote that, i was thinking of the people who say "yeah, i love classical music like bach, mozart, beethoven and brahms," which are VASTLY different genres. to me, it just sounds like they're naming every classical composer they can think of.

so the second part of that is purely opinion. and my opinion was formed after playing so many bach preludes and fugues as part of a requirement for all the competitions (see above ). and they are just the most wretched little things. just note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note. sure, there are some neat things like 4-part harmonies shared between two hands, but that is used in later works too. as a pianist, memorizing bach was such a bitch because there are no natural starting and stopping places, no transitions, no overarching lines -- just note, note, note, note, note til the end. if you get lost, there's no way to pick back up again because the beginning sounds like the middle sounds like the end. i think of them as "little diddies." i don't know if that translates well. (are you ukrainian? you're english is unbelievable.) to me, that means they just drone on and on in a chipper little way = emotionless. i think it's pretty obvious that the later the period, the more thunderous/passionate/epic the pieces got. baroque-era composers and early mozart is just too "prancy" for me.

sorry you asked?

Originally posted by D Mullholand
Debussy - too modern ?

i said debussy was starting to cross the line. i still like quite a bit of debussy. my favorite is La Cathedral Engloutie.

i'll check out that Schoenberg. i haven't heard any, i don't think.

 

[BillowOfZeal]

I am really happy there was a post like this because i am kind of new to classical and i enjoy it very much. Thanks for the recomendations.....Lately i have been listening to Mozart (great while reading) Tchaivosky, Beethoven, Jerry Goldsmith (the omen, poltregeist, Total Recal....etc... soundtracks. Danny Elfman. Kind of a lame list but as i said i am a bit new to it and right now do not have the funds to go out and buy much of anything really

Jay

 

[HellSpawn]

Classical music is really great, I got in to it trough the Japanise guy who compose the music to the Fanal Fantasy games....(dont remember his name) from that i started to listen to movie composers as Hans Zimmer, Jhon Willihams, Tan Dun.. and some more...

Rachmaninov, Grieg and Mozart are the none-movie realted composers I like the most...

 

[brightoffski]

Originally posted by Wolff

There was only one Bach (the Skid Row guy doesn't count). You're probably thinking of the Strauss-es.

So the bloodline is enduring in the form of a Skid Row member?

After I wrote that I remembered why, I have given a compilation to my grandma with a C.x (?) Bach on it, apparently son of J.S Bach the most famous I think. There was also another "prodigal" son from memory... My housemate has a really cool short and concise book about all of these 18th - 19th century composer figures and strangely I seem to know a lot of meaningless information about composers I have most likely never heard.

There were a lot of Strauss-es too though...

Not that this is really any exciting information. Excuse me I am a little drunk....

 

[brightoffski]

Originally posted by HoserHellspawn

I also particularly enjoy "O Fortuna" from Carl Orff's Carmina Burana.

Therion do a rendition of this on "Deggial"

 

[brightoffski]

Thanks for all the replies...

I have noticed that Rahmanin(ov/off) seems to get quite a mention and I guess this has proven inductively that Opeth and Rachmaninov are not completely dissimiliar.

Sibelius will definitely get some airtime at some stage...

I don't really like Wagner that much, haven't heard a whole lot of his material. The Germans don't seem to turn me on too much, although I do have a sentimental attachment to Also Sprach Zarathustra by Strauss, of the Richard variety, probably only because of its inspiration, but hey.

 

[Bacchus]

I love pretty much everything by Paganini.

 

[E V I L]

Speaking of Lizst,

Does anyone remember the saturday morning Cartoon "The Smurfs"?

hehe, I got into classical music because of this cartoon. Let me see, it has themes from lizst's piano concerto (first movement/the "Gargamel" evil theme) and I beleive it has the theme from Schubert's Ninth Symphony! (when the smurfs are trying to get away from trouble)

Not to mention "Loony Toons" -- Bugs Bunny does one wild rendition of Lizst's 5th (?) Hungarian Rhapsody. So much culture in these cartoons. I wonder what children watch now?

 

[JesusChristPose]

Speaking of the Smurf's - there is the main theme from Frank's only symphony in D Major played on that show.

Being a "heavy metal" forum, I would think that Tchaikovsky would of received more recognition, than he did....afterall, he is the Father of Heavy Metal.

 

[D Mullholand]

Originally posted by Lina
first let me say that when i wrote that, i was thinking of the people who say "yeah, i love classical music like bach, mozart, beethoven and brahms," which are VASTLY different genres. to me, it just sounds like they're naming every classical composer they can think of.

Oh, I can wholeheartedly agree here. It's like prestigious to listen to the most acclaimed and recognized composers, but most people of that type don't really listen to music for their personal benefit/enjoyment/whatever. To them it's a social thing, a distilled form of snobbery.

It's basically the same stereotype chain : to most people who are not into music, classical is 'that violin stuff, like, that orcherstra, yo !..' You let them hear some Ligeti and tell them it's classical too, they won't believe you. To them it's like museum music, better get some Titney Pierce songs (my, that was politically incorrect ).

Some people here on this thread did a similar mistake - associating film-music and game-music with classical. Most of the soundtrack stuff isn't really classical, it's popular music written for orchestra. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying 'film music is garbage' - I like good soundtracks, but usage of an orchestra and absence of a song doesn't mean it's classical.

so the second part of that is purely opinion. and my opinion was formed after playing so many bach preludes and fugues as part of a requirement for all the competitions (see above ). and they are just the most wretched little things. just note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note, note. sure, there are some neat things like 4-part harmonies shared between two hands, but that is used in later works too. as a pianist, memorizing bach was such a bitch because there are no natural starting and stopping places, no transitions, no overarching lines -- just note, note, note, note, note til the end. if you get lost, there's no way to pick back up again because the beginning sounds like the middle sounds like the end. i think of them as "little diddies." i don't know if that translates well. (are you ukrainian? you're english is unbelievable.) to me, that means they just drone on and on in a chipper little way = emotionless. i think it's pretty obvious that the later the period, the more thunderous/passionate/epic the pieces got. baroque-era composers and early mozart is just too "prancy" for me.

sorry you asked?

I listened to the first Brandenburg Concerto today and I understand what you mean. It does seem a tad over-calculated in parts, too strict counterpoint, too much emphasis on the perfection of the form, that is why I don't listen to Bach that often. My objection was to the words 'emotionless' and 'paid like Titney Pierce'. As far as I know, Bach wrote mainly religiously-oriented music, unlike popstars like Handel and Vivaldi, whom I cannot tolerate more than once a year. Mozart has written too much pop as well, although his pop stuff is better than some of the others. But Requiem is where it's at !

And shouldn't that be 'little diTTies ?' (correct me please if I'm wrong, the word 'diDDies' doesn't say a lot to me - but I'm a weirdo, my written English is better than my spoken Ukrainian )

i'll check out that Schoenberg. i haven't heard any, i don't think.

But if you get 'Pierrot Lunaire', don't be put off by the vocal parts - don't try to separate them from the music. You'll get it when you hear it .


D Mullholand
------------------------
NP: Arnold Schoenberg - Pierrot Lunaire

 

[Hannu Mutanen]

Some people here on this thread did a similar mistake - associating film-music and game-music with classical. Most of the
soundtrack stuff isn't really classical, it's popular music written for orchestra. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying 'film
music is garbage' - I like good soundtracks, but usage of an orchestra and absence of a song doesn't mean it's classical.

Ah, I see this remark pointing very much towards myself. You are right, there should be a distinction between soundtrack music and classical music, but with my knowledge of classical being as small as it is now, I am not really the one to tell what that distinction would be. The question has the same outset as does the separation between black and death metal: until having further insight into these styles and hence being able to separate them from each other it is very likely to have them mentioned in the same sentence. So in my case, now it is very much like the time when I was beginning to find the actual difference between, say, Morbid Angel and Immortal: there is something there to separate them that I yet can not give words to.

 

[brightoffski]

First of all, D Mullholand & Hannu Mutanen, this is not directed at either of you personally, I see you are trying to express your own subjective interpretations of what "Classical" music is.
I have some thoughts too...

I don't see the importance of trying to classify music to the point where there is so much pre-occupation with what genre it belongs too and the subsequent image that inevitabely gets attached.
Something that annoys me -> Black Metal Dudes who seem to spend so much time deciding what is, and what is not Black Metal and the constant worthless debate of whether CoF and DB..etc fit into this category...WHO CARES! (it has more do with image problems than any real musical concern I think ) I guess this is why I have a hard time giving a traditional answer to the
"What KIND of music do you like?" enquiry.

Obviously it has its uses, like in this thread where I was trying to find out in a *broad* sense what the "Classical" tastes of each boardmember are. There is much individual interpretation of what would *appropriately* fit under this banner and I do not profess to know what "Classical" is and what it is not. I have my own idea, but I am 100% sure that it is different to that of everyone else...

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by D Mullholand
As far as I know, Bach wrote mainly religiously-oriented music, unlike popstars like Handel and Vivaldi, whom I cannot tolerate more than once a year. Mozart has written too much pop as well, although his pop stuff is better than some of the others. But Requiem is where it's at !

I agree wholeheartedly. I sang Lacrimosa in a choir with an orchestra, and I nearly started crying while singing (bad combo) because I was so overcome with its power and beauty. And yes, I despise Handel and Vivaldi as much as Bach. Let me say though, that I'm only familiar with the piano works of his, so maybe his arrangements for other instruments have some merit.

Originally posted by D Mullholand
And shouldn't that be 'little diTTies ?' (correct me please if I'm wrong, the word 'diDDies' doesn't say a lot to me - but I'm a weirdo, my written English is better than my spoken Ukrainian )

Doh! How embarassing! Yes, you got me, you know the language better than I do. I'm so impressed. How do you learn all the slang and vernacular? Did you ever study in an English-speaking country? I've traveled in some Eastern European countries and very few people spoke any English, much less perfect English like you! You even know the difference between "who" and "whom" -- I'm the only American left who actually cares about that!

 

[Ihsahn]

I am no expert whatsoever on classical, and I wouldn't know the first thing about it. I just know there is alot I like, and that there are great possiblities. I write down composers and pieces people list every chance I get so I can check them out.

I like some of Hans Zimmer, ESPECIALLY on the Hannibal score. I recommend the songs "Virtue", "The Burning Heart", "Vide Cor Meum". They all have dark romance, as is the movie, and are very melancholy. Vide Cor Meum is not really melancholy, but actually more sublime. I DEMAND YOU LISTEN TO THESE SONGS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!! If you must know, Virtue is my favorite song EVER. So far...

Another one I like is Dimmu Borgir - Fear and Wonder from PEM. Dark, majestic, depressing. I also like Emperors classical stuff in their music, and wish they did more songs like Opus A Satana. Another classically oriented keyboardist is Sverd from Covenant and Arcturus. August, sorrowful, ethereal. (As you may have noticed I'm good with words).

Also, I'm not sure if you would consider Dark Ambient artists 'composers' but I like alot of that stuff. Some I like are Mortiis, Sepiroth, Kervonian, Distros, Endura, The Orb, Archon Satani, and Steven Roach. I love atmospheric music.

 

[E V I L]

Originally posted by Lina
I agree wholeheartedly. I sang Lacrimosa in a choir with an orchestra, and I nearly started crying while singing (bad combo) because I was so overcome with its power and beauty. And yes, I despise Handel and Vivaldi as much as Bach. Let me say though, that I'm only familiar with the piano works of his, so maybe his arrangements for other instruments have some merit.

Mozart's requiem.....my favorite is "Lacrimosa" indeed. I've heard this one at varying tempos- i think i like it best at a slightly slower tempo than, I guess, what's typical. "Confutatis" is cool too.

I got to dating a girl once (one wintry season in 97 ish) over just this common taste in music and mozart; though, at first, she only loved "confutatis," I loved "Lacrimosa"-- eventually, after a while, our tastes sort of got entangled and I started liking confutatis, and she the lacrimosa. Strange though, that I should be taken in the first place by the slower lacrimosa and she the turbulent confutatis. It's a fine world in which we live.

 

[E V I L]

....after listening a little to the Requiem now, I must say that the "introitus" (the bit before "kyrie") is singularly beautiful too, easy to forget the whole damn thing is about a Christian funeral contextualized heavily in christian mythos, especially the more wrathful, direful aspects of it. Mozart is a genius, amen.

E V I L, just ranting before my diurnal requiem
(the sleep nocturnal)
in the void I replenish pains,
before the immanence
of a rest eternal.
Requiescat in Pace

(what the? huh? wha? it's this damn Nyquil I'm on *may cause cheesiness)