Just for fun...for now /evilgrin

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006

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Jan 10, 2005
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Ok, so I've been working at this studio for about a year now, and I worked at a very nice studio before this. I love it. I have so much fun here it should be illegal. But I've always wanted to have a building of my own and have my own studio. So I've been thinking about it a lot lately, more than ever. When I found out about this one guy that was able to buy a house when he was 22 by getting a ton of government grants, and a couple of very small loans to cover the rest, it got me thinking more and more about my dream. I feel that I have the business end of the knowledge stick taken care of since lately I've been handling it at the studio I'm at a lot more lately. And I also feel that my experience with recording so far has achieved a level to where I could do what my boss has been doing for the last 4 years, which is handle it all by himself, every single day. When I started there, I took a huge load off of his back by handling more than half of the sessions every month. A year later, and I'm starting to do more and more sessions, basically I'm becoming the house engineer here. I'm not complaining, more money for me, but I figure if I'm already doing it all my self, why not have my own place to just keep doing that anyway? So I started to compile a list of equipment that I should start on, that will leave room for upgrades every where. I wanted to see how much the equipment would cost alone so that I can get an idea of what I need to ask for when I go to get a loan for it. I was wondering if anyone here could take a look and show me where I could save money here and there and not sacrifice quality too much. I'm still debating on a few things, but for the most part, I think I have a well rounded selection of the basics. Check out this list:

-Custom built PC (rackmount)
-Vegas 6.0
-MOTU 24 i/o interface
-Waves Platinum Native bundle
-Mackie Control Universal (DAW control surface)
-Mackie Big Knob
-Mackie HR824a (mixing only)
-Event Tuned Reference 8" active (for abuse/tracking only)
-PreSonus DigiMax LT (3 of these)
-Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones (7 of these)
-Furman HDS-6 headphone distro
-Furman HR-6 headphone mix station (2 of these, drummers and vocalists are picky, let them make their own mix!)
-Mackie HM54 headphone distro (for everyone else, :P)
-Neumann TLM103
-Shure SM57 (5 of these, guitar, snare, tennis shoe mic'ing, etc.)
-Shure Beta52
-Sennheiser e609 (1, guitars)
-Sennheiser e906 (guitar/tom mic)
-Sennheiser e904 (4, with clamps, tom mics)
-Shure KSM32 (overheads)
-Rode NT2-A
-Rode NT5 matched pair (acoustic guitars/ride/hats)
-Drawmer Six-Pack (2, for drum comp/gate/lim)
-M-Audio TAMPA (for direct bass, it's awesome trust me)
-Focusrite Compounder (for fun)

I've been debating over a mic pre for vocals. I have been looking mainly at an Avalon 737 and the Focusrite Liquid Channel..although the Liquid Channel gets the "it's thin sounding" comment whenever I find real users. I used the Avalon every day at the old studio, I liked it. Plus it's like half the cost of the Focusrite. I would have gone Mac for this, but I don't want to use ProTools, it would be too expensive. Besides, I have a G5 dual 2.0 already, I can always switch out the DAW anytime. But I want to go the PC with Vegas route like I'm working on now. I'm really liking the performance and everything. SO...anybody have any cost suggestions? Replacement peices? Mic suggestions? Anything? This gear list is around $30k or so, I would love to crack it down in any way I can. I want enough gear to be able to track an entire band at once. I should easily be able to that with this stuff. In the $30k or so total I have budgeted in mic stands, cables, and the other little things that I will need. So, anybody?

~006
 
What about all the other stuff.....rooms, sound treatment, furniture, computer moniter......there is always something else no matter how long you plan.....
 
I said I had the cables and whatnot budgeted. I just have to buy that stuff in person, not online, I need to see the mic stands and cables to judge quality, etc.

The building, room treatments, and everything else isn't listed because I just want the equipment cost right now.

I still haven't decided what I want to do for the building yet. I would love to get a house and convert the rooms...or actually build a studio from the ground up...dunno yet, I'm still just trying to get all the gear first.

And yes, I do have a lot of free time, right now I'm just mixing some sessions, so I'm just sitting here all alone at the studio mixing some of these gay bands' sessions, lol.

~006
 
I can say what i'd do. That's a cool starting setup!

Vegas? O.o

I'd take a couple of different dynamic mics, in order to be able of catching more sounds. I'd exchange a couple of the 57's for mics like the MD441 or i5.

You can make a really cheap, crappy but powerful headphone amplifier from computer speakers. Works for drummers and other unnecessary musicians. :tickled:

I don't see much use for stuff like the Big Knob or the Control Universal, but if you like it, it's cool.

If you're into it, search for some "who knows" mics like PZMs and old ribbon mics..

I'd also get a neat TUBE preamp. It can seriously boost your tracking for many things.
 
Just be sure to keep the federal logistics in mind if you decide to do it from home. If you decide to buy a house and make it into a studio, you'll have to think about the specific zoning laws for your area. Some areas allow businesses from home, others don't. Even if some areas do, other community subdivisions could still have restrictions. If you register as a business from home, then you have to start reporting taxable income and likely start charging tax for all services rendered for paid sessions. Plus, all of your gear would become taxable and your property taxes would probably sky rocket. In addition to house insurance (which would have covered gear before if written properly), you'd then also likely have to have an additional policy to cover aspects from a business end.

To stay open, you'd have to show a profit also. After 3 years of not showing a profit (and not many businesses do within there first few years), the IRS won't consider you a business anymore and pretty much will shut you down.

On the other side, you could always opt to keep it under the radar and unregistered if you wanted. The moment you apply for a business license from home, you'll be raising the eyebrows of all the local officials who will be starting to ask questions like..."Is that area zoned for a studio?" Considering you'd have likely a small group of guys coming in at any given time, you wouldn't exactly have a full on traffic flow constantly coming and going like another business would. Given that, you could be viewed as nothing more than a guy who has buddies over to play with his recording equipment. Then you'd only be concerned with things like noise ordinances, having places to park during regular "business" hours, etc.

Most legal staff would probably advise you against turning a home studio into an official business until you absolutely have to. If you decide to make a business from the start by renting a building, then you have to deal with all of that stuff anyway. Just some food for thought if you decide to go the home route.
 
Ok, I just got off of the phone with MOTU support. I just realised that the 24i/o only has TRS inputs. Not ADAT connections anywhere. So, I am switching the interface to the 2408mk3, it has 24i/o, but it has ADAT in on the unit, which is what I need if I'm going to be using the PreSonus DigiMax LT's as my front-end.

I was using the Big Knob at the old studio, and before we got it there I thought it was pointless too. But, when we got them in there and I did the first session using it...I was like "wow, where have you been!" It's a really handy tool. We use a Control Universal here to control Vegas, I like it a LOT more than using the mouse. It's just me. I prefer faders and knobs over a mouse. Call me old-school if you want, but thats my story and I'm stickin' to it! :P

So, I just saved like $500 on my interface by switching to the 2408mk3. Woohoo.

Ok, on to mics. Somebody told me that I should look around for a different vocal mic besides the TLM103. I mean...I love that mic, I don't understand what the deal is. I would like to save money, I could always get a Rode NT series mic for vocals instead, we use them here and they rock.

I can't decide on a vocal pre. I definitely want something tube. I've been checking out a lot of stuff, but can't decide on anything. Any suggestions? It needs to be able to do any style. I don't want something that reacts well to pop music, but when a metal band comes in, the pre just doesn't have the right sound. Yanno?

~006
 
Ugh...maybe the DigiMax isn't the best front-end to go with...

Ok here's how it's shaping up..I'll need the 2408mk3 with the PCI card, the core. Then a 2408mk3 expansion unit. So I just brought myself back to the price of the 24i/o, but now I can actually use my DigiMax LT's. But the DigiMax units do not have any other output, only ADAT. So if I wanted to route the mic's signal to the Drawmer six pack, for say kick drum compression, I would have to do some rediculous routing through the MOTU. I want to use a patch bay for this purpose. Like this:

PreSonus (or whatever)
|
patch bay
|
MOTU

Then using the patch bay, or a couple of them, I can route the signals from the DigiMax to the Drawmer, or the Compounder, or directly to the MOTU, etc. In any way I want, say I want DigiMax inputs 1-4 to go to the Drawmer for compression and limiting, and then 5-7 to go straight to the MOTU, and then 8-12 to the Drawmer for more compression. I can't do that with the DigiMax because it goes straight to the MOTU.

I need to find another front-end that has outputs for every input. Back to the drawing board...

~006
 
You could try the new Firepods from presonus. It would be the Firestudio. They now come with adat in and out, word clock in and out, still with the 8 mic pres, balanced outputs on every channel and s/pdif in and out. You can connect up to 3 at a time and with the adats in use could give u like 54 inputs wich is a ton. Last years models are the same but minus the adat in and out and the wordclock, oh yea the new one comes witha sweet remote taht uses a cat5e cable so it could run a long way. I own the Firepod and am very happy with it, its really clean and natural sounding wich i like. The new ones are going to come out in a month and will be about 900 but the old ones are 600 and will prolly drop once the Firestudio comes out. Just another option.

Jordan
 
006 said:
Ugh...maybe the DigiMax isn't the best front-end to go with...

Ok here's how it's shaping up..I'll need the 2408mk3 with the PCI card, the core. Then a 2408mk3 expansion unit. So I just brought myself back to the price of the 24i/o, but now I can actually use my DigiMax LT's. But the DigiMax units do not have any other output, only ADAT. So if I wanted to route the mic's signal to the Drawmer six pack, for say kick drum compression, I would have to do some rediculous routing through the MOTU. I want to use a patch bay for this purpose. Like this:

PreSonus (or whatever)
|
patch bay
|
MOTU


Then using the patch bay, or a couple of them, I can route the signals from the DigiMax to the Drawmer, or the Compounder, or directly to the MOTU, etc. In any way I want, say I want DigiMax inputs 1-4 to go to the Drawmer for compression and limiting, and then 5-7 to go straight to the MOTU, and then 8-12 to the Drawmer for more compression. I can't do that with the DigiMax because it goes straight to the MOTU.

I need to find another front-end that has outputs for every input. Back to the drawing board...

~006
Click to expand...

Digimax does have 1/4 inch outputs on ever channel.
You should get the digimax 96k with the limiters. They work great for drums.
I also have the Big knob and really like the use of it, but Ive heard here it "colors" the sounds. I havent heard the differnce but it seems the Central station with remote is better (James thinks so). As far as what you will need for your studio, I have found out that you will never have enough and will always "need" something. Good luck!:rock:
 
some other usefull stuff:
- 2 17" TFTs for the DAW or a nice 16:9 Apple Display
- big rackmount tuner you trust
- 2 or 3 reamp boxes
- a second pc/mac/whatever for office/internet stuff
- backup devices
- couple of triggers
- playstation/xbox (bored musicians are pain in the ass) ;-)
 
Oh, I have LCD displays already. I didn't think about the tuner. Definitely will be adding a reamp to the list. And I need to make sure ot have a DVD burner and DVD-R's for backing up sessions. I would like to get at least one DDrum RedShot tirgger for kick drums. I usually never have had a problem with snare drums. Sometimes though a drummer can amaze me at his ability to completely avoid the compressor that I had set for his kick drum, lol. I have a PowerBook G4 15" and a PowerMac G5 dual 2.0 I can use for other things.

I just got off of the phone with a guy at synthax, which is some RME thing. I like the options, but it's still not giving me what I am trying to do. The guy recommended the FireFace800 and a couple of OctoMic's. But it seems like nobody understands what I'm trying to do.

I want to have completely seperate mic pres with analog 1/4" TRS outputs for every channel, so that I hook it up to a patch bay. I also need an interface with enough analog ins to accept all of the mic pres I will have from the patch bay. I want the ability to have the signals from the mic pres to go to the patch bay, and then either go from the patch bay directly to the interface, OR to outboard gear, and THEN to the interface. All analog connections. I think the MOTU 24 i/o was a better idea, very simple 24 channels of in and out 1/4" TRS. I don't want to route OUT of the interface, like the 2408 and the RME FireFace800. I want to be able to route before the signal(s) ever even get to the interface.

Ok I just looked at the DigiMax 96k, it's basically EXACTLY what I need for a front-end. I just wish it didn't have the digital outs..that inflates the price. I'll need 3 of them...eesh.

Ok, so I'm back to the 24 i/o, and now switching it to the PreSonus DigiMax 96k instead of the LT. Now I'm back up in cost again, lol. I still need a mic pre for vocals only. And Drumagog.

~006
 
I would also go for the 24i/o for your setup.

I don't know how the DigiMax pres sound, but since 3 DigiMax are cheaper than 3 OctoPres or 3 OctaMics and you like it, I would wote for the DigiMax then.

A good clock generator is also usefull. Like a Rosendahl NanoSync or NanoClock.

As for a preamp for vocals I would rent a couple of different one (API, Neve, SSL, ...) and choose by listing. But 2 different brands would be good.
Just to have an option when you track different vocal types.
 
Yeah, I've been looking at that just now. I need at LEAST 16 power connections. I have a battery backup here at the house already, paid a pretty penny for it, and since I don't have a PC anymore...I won't be needing it at the house, so I shouldn't buy another one. Furman makes good conditioners and stuff right?

~006
 
I was considering an API setup for vocals. Like 512C or something. But I can't find a rackmount chassis to hold one or two of them in, only the lunchbox. :\

~006
 
006 said:
Yeah, I've been looking at that just now. I need at LEAST 16 power connections. I have a battery backup here at the house already, paid a pretty penny for it, and since I don't have a PC anymore...I won't be needing it at the house, so I shouldn't buy another one. Furman makes good conditioners and stuff right?

~006
Click to expand...
yeah the furman stuff is good. i have a monster powerpro 3500 that has been really good to me. check them all out and get the best you can afford.
as far as the digimax situation, i have one and really like it. but as far as three goes? i would mix it up and get one digimax, one octapre, one octamic. get some different flavors going, as some will be good for some things and some for others. but that would be 24 nice preamps going in. also makie onyx 8pre rackmount unit? check the all out for sure man.
 
Hmm, that sounds like a really good idea. The OctoPre LE has 8 TRS outputs, which is what I need. I think I'll replace one of the Digi's for that. Actually...hmm...I have some thinking to do...

~006
 
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