Working on a gear list for studio next year...
- Thread starter 006
- Start date
Seizure.
Member
Hmm, all seem to be good choices. Also...I checked out the TRUE Precision 8...it has a DB25 output, which I can use a TRS breakout to go into the RME F-800 interface's line inputs. So that eliminates one of the Onyx 800R's...however, I will then need an additional patch bay so that I can switch between the i/o of the Precision 8 and the i/o of my Avalon 737 going into the RME.
RME = 8 line inputs + 16 ADAT inputs.
1-8 line from patch bay
ADAT 1 = Onyx 800R?
On the patch bay, there are 24 ins and 24 outs. So I suppose I could do 1-8 ins as the Precision 8 outputs, and then the first 8 outputs are the inputs to the RME. Then input 9 on the patch bay could be the Avalon's output, and then I could just remove a patch for one of the channels on the Precision and use that for the Avalon to go into the RME.
As far as having a pair (minimum) of HiZ inputs for direct guitars and bass, I suppose I could go into the channels on the front of the RME, or the two on the Precision 8... And I'll have the RedEye as a DI anyway for guitars specifically, so I think that would be covered.
I'm really glad the RME is software switchable from -10 to +4, that will really help with all of the reamping I'll be doing.
I just realized what a crazy patch setup I'm going to have. 6 amplifier inputs, 12 amplifier outputs (6 fx loop outs - for using impulses, 6 speaker outs - for mic'ing), 4 cabinet inputs, 8 outs for the Precision 8, 8 ins for the RME, 1 out for the Avalon...and as I think about it there's always more crap to have patched. Headphones, all the busses for those...
Oh yeah, thats another thing. Since I'll be using the Hear Back system, it has an ADAT input...meaning I could have 8 bus mixes to send to it for the musicians to control with their own little mixer things that come with the system. So...I suppose I could have the ADAT output of the RME going into the HearBack system, and have those 8 channels setup using RME's TotalMix software as busses...right? In other words...I can take the guitars and have those channel outputs going to a bus, like say channel 8 and 9 in my DAW are the guitars L and R (for instance), and I could have those outs into one using the TM software, and have that output through the ADAT output on the RME...right?
I'm getting so confused with all of this shit...and I still have over a year before it'll actually be utilized, lol. I'm going to stop for now on this post and let some answers come about before I keep going and get myself further in the hole with questions.
Oh, and the overhead mics will be the C451B's, a pair of them. Along with the e614's for the ride and hats should be a great setup to start with for OH mic'ing...all condensors
~e.a
RME = 8 line inputs + 16 ADAT inputs.
1-8 line from patch bay
ADAT 1 = Onyx 800R?
On the patch bay, there are 24 ins and 24 outs. So I suppose I could do 1-8 ins as the Precision 8 outputs, and then the first 8 outputs are the inputs to the RME. Then input 9 on the patch bay could be the Avalon's output, and then I could just remove a patch for one of the channels on the Precision and use that for the Avalon to go into the RME.
As far as having a pair (minimum) of HiZ inputs for direct guitars and bass, I suppose I could go into the channels on the front of the RME, or the two on the Precision 8... And I'll have the RedEye as a DI anyway for guitars specifically, so I think that would be covered.
I'm really glad the RME is software switchable from -10 to +4, that will really help with all of the reamping I'll be doing.
I just realized what a crazy patch setup I'm going to have. 6 amplifier inputs, 12 amplifier outputs (6 fx loop outs - for using impulses, 6 speaker outs - for mic'ing), 4 cabinet inputs, 8 outs for the Precision 8, 8 ins for the RME, 1 out for the Avalon...and as I think about it there's always more crap to have patched. Headphones, all the busses for those...
Oh yeah, thats another thing. Since I'll be using the Hear Back system, it has an ADAT input...meaning I could have 8 bus mixes to send to it for the musicians to control with their own little mixer things that come with the system. So...I suppose I could have the ADAT output of the RME going into the HearBack system, and have those 8 channels setup using RME's TotalMix software as busses...right? In other words...I can take the guitars and have those channel outputs going to a bus, like say channel 8 and 9 in my DAW are the guitars L and R (for instance), and I could have those outs into one using the TM software, and have that output through the ADAT output on the RME...right?
I'm getting so confused with all of this shit...and I still have over a year before it'll actually be utilized, lol. I'm going to stop for now on this post and let some answers come about before I keep going and get myself further in the hole with questions.
Oh, and the overhead mics will be the C451B's, a pair of them. Along with the e614's for the ride and hats should be a great setup to start with for OH mic'ing...all condensors
~e.a
Noumenon
Obsidian Productions
Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
It's a nice gear list, that for sure. I can't see you going wrong with any of it.
Try to stay away from foam treatments, though... they don't do shit below 500hz. Go ask Ethan Wiener about his traps and/or how to build some.
It's too bad you want a Mackie Control Universal, though. I had one for Sonar, and it was great for it. But, I sold it last year after switching over to SAW as it was slowing me down!
-0z-
Try to stay away from foam treatments, though... they don't do shit below 500hz. Go ask Ethan Wiener about his traps and/or how to build some.
It's too bad you want a Mackie Control Universal, though. I had one for Sonar, and it was great for it. But, I sold it last year after switching over to SAW as it was slowing me down!
-0z-
Well for Digital Peformer, Vegas, and ProTools it works flawlessly, and helps so much when you want to mess with volumes and automation using faders. I am to the point now that all I use the mouse for here is basically to open the host and maybe to handle some of the windows that pop up, other than that everything else can be controlled with the MCU, add tracks, record, rewind, playback, loop, access plug-ins and parameters....even editing can be do with it. I love it and don't see how I ever got along without one before. At the old place I worked at we had mostly Digi control surfaces, Control|24, ProControl and right when I left they were installing a D|Command, but in the suite I was in (mostly just foley and ADR projects) they had a Mackie HUI which was cool but compared to the MCU was not nearly as useful.
I think I'll go with some RODE mics for overheads...I've got an acoustic engineer coming out whenever I get ready for the acoustics to come out and basically design a stylish but functional acoustic treatment setup, including bass traps and diffusors, spacial array in the back of the control room, help me design the angles of walls and ceilings, as well as the big floor to ceiling window between the control room and the large tracking room. I'm doing everything right. And that will already put me way ahead of where I work now...this room is far from an ideal mixing environment, it only works because we are both use to it, when I first started in here I was like "omg..this is horrible", but now I know what to boost and cut to hear what it will really sound like on other systems.
I took a trip out to Best Buy yesterday afternoon to check out their in-wall speaker selection...it was very limited to say the least. The Yamaha's they had that were 6" woofers and 127w each weren't too bad...I was just hoping for something bigger. I will be putting them in the large tracking room for drummers/whole band/whatever to hear instead of coming into the control room to hear their performance on something other than headphones. I saw those JBL Control28 speakers in Sweetwater's catalog, but I dunno how big they are other than 8" woofer and however many watts...I want like...2 woofers per speaker, and it needs to be LOUD. If I can't find anything like I'm looking for, I might have to just get PA speakers and put them in the walls and make covers so that they blend into the walls instead of it looking like a big hole with a PA speaker in it. Any recommendations on big ass wall speakers just for playback in a tracking room? Powered or unpowered, no difference, I just need big ass, loud ass, lots of low-end pushing, great high-end clarity speakers.
~e.a
I think I'll go with some RODE mics for overheads...I've got an acoustic engineer coming out whenever I get ready for the acoustics to come out and basically design a stylish but functional acoustic treatment setup, including bass traps and diffusors, spacial array in the back of the control room, help me design the angles of walls and ceilings, as well as the big floor to ceiling window between the control room and the large tracking room. I'm doing everything right. And that will already put me way ahead of where I work now...this room is far from an ideal mixing environment, it only works because we are both use to it, when I first started in here I was like "omg..this is horrible", but now I know what to boost and cut to hear what it will really sound like on other systems.
I took a trip out to Best Buy yesterday afternoon to check out their in-wall speaker selection...it was very limited to say the least. The Yamaha's they had that were 6" woofers and 127w each weren't too bad...I was just hoping for something bigger. I will be putting them in the large tracking room for drummers/whole band/whatever to hear instead of coming into the control room to hear their performance on something other than headphones. I saw those JBL Control28 speakers in Sweetwater's catalog, but I dunno how big they are other than 8" woofer and however many watts...I want like...2 woofers per speaker, and it needs to be LOUD. If I can't find anything like I'm looking for, I might have to just get PA speakers and put them in the walls and make covers so that they blend into the walls instead of it looking like a big hole with a PA speaker in it. Any recommendations on big ass wall speakers just for playback in a tracking room? Powered or unpowered, no difference, I just need big ass, loud ass, lots of low-end pushing, great high-end clarity speakers.
~e.a
Ok so the first 8-channel preamp I'm going with for drums is the TRUE Precision 8, and the second will be a PreSonus M80. I'll have to run both into a converter of some kind to go from analog to ADAT...so I've been checking out the Apogee Rosetta 800 or the AD-16X, both of which convert DB25/TDIF into ADAT optical, the Rosetta just does one i/o, the AD-16X does two i/o.
Does anyone know if it makes a difference getting two Rosetta's or one AD-16X? Two Rosetta's will be very expensive, at over $2k a pop, while the AD-16's are $3,200 for one, and it can do two "channels" of DB25 into two ADAT outputs. Which would leave the 8 line inputs on the RME open for other things.
As far as guitar mic'ing, I think I'm going to go for the Vintech X73i to have in there along with the Avalon VT-737sp. Should be a really nice setup for acoustic guitars and vocals as well.
Hmm.....trying to think of anything else.
Am I missing anything?
~e.a
Does anyone know if it makes a difference getting two Rosetta's or one AD-16X? Two Rosetta's will be very expensive, at over $2k a pop, while the AD-16's are $3,200 for one, and it can do two "channels" of DB25 into two ADAT outputs. Which would leave the 8 line inputs on the RME open for other things.
As far as guitar mic'ing, I think I'm going to go for the Vintech X73i to have in there along with the Avalon VT-737sp. Should be a really nice setup for acoustic guitars and vocals as well.
Hmm.....trying to think of anything else.
Am I missing anything?
~e.a
Actually fuck the Apogee...in an effort to keep purple out of my studio, I am instead going with the RME converter. The ADI-192DD...it can take two DB25 TDIF inputs and convert to ADAT...plus it's cheaper than the Apogee, doesn't have purple on it, and I'm sure it does just as good a job at converting A/D. Not to mention I'd have more RME stuff
~e.a
~e.a
The preamps definetly look like the weak link. I would pick up a couple different flavors and you should be able to get some slamming sounds. For instance, an API 3124+, a Great River MP-2NV, and a Brent Averill 1272 would give you 8 nice channels for drums and depending what style of guitar sound you wanted for a particular song, you could get a nice wide variety of sounds for guitar tracking.
gump - I'm actually getting a True Systems Precision 8 which is 8 channels of Class A preamplification, the unit is $2k+...and then also a PreSonus M80 which is a Class A set of 8 preamps...this is not cheap stuff. The Mackies I've tossed off of my list though. Also going on is a Vintech X73i, which is basically a Neve 1073 clone, with an eq on board as well...the best of the best as far as preamps go.
So for drums I have Precision 8 + PreSonus M80, and then for guitars/vocals I have a Vintech X73i and an Avalon VT-737sp. Not too bad...actually thats some rediculously wicked preamplification if you ask me. A lot cheaper than I thought it would be too. Then I also have 4 pres on the RME FireFace 800. The Precision 8 and the M80 will both go into the RME ADI-192 DD as DB25 TDIF connections and then back out as ADAT optical into the FireFace. The Vintech and Avalon can go into the line inputs on the FireFace. Then I have line inputs 3-8 clear for anything else (most likely for reamping). The 4 channels on the front of the FireFace also have direct inputs for instruments, so I could use those or the Red Eye for D.I.'ing guitars and bass for later reamping through the Red Eye.
With this setup so far I can run sessions at 24-bit/192kHz and have pristine quality recordings. Most likely I'll be running 24-bit/48kHz though...just my preference. Anyway...now I'm off to configure a patch bay setup for everything while I still have some free time tonight.
~e.a
So for drums I have Precision 8 + PreSonus M80, and then for guitars/vocals I have a Vintech X73i and an Avalon VT-737sp. Not too bad...actually thats some rediculously wicked preamplification if you ask me. A lot cheaper than I thought it would be too. Then I also have 4 pres on the RME FireFace 800. The Precision 8 and the M80 will both go into the RME ADI-192 DD as DB25 TDIF connections and then back out as ADAT optical into the FireFace. The Vintech and Avalon can go into the line inputs on the FireFace. Then I have line inputs 3-8 clear for anything else (most likely for reamping). The 4 channels on the front of the FireFace also have direct inputs for instruments, so I could use those or the Red Eye for D.I.'ing guitars and bass for later reamping through the Red Eye.
With this setup so far I can run sessions at 24-bit/192kHz and have pristine quality recordings. Most likely I'll be running 24-bit/48kHz though...just my preference. Anyway...now I'm off to configure a patch bay setup for everything while I still have some free time tonight.
~e.a
Man, that sounds serious and I wish you the best of luck putting together your studio. A few things:
- D112 for kickdrum doesn't sound optimal to me - you might want to check out re-20 or audix d6
- Get a pair KEL-HM1 microphones. Cheap as hell and sounds very good and different (they are a bit darker than your usual condenser, which actually works well for drums, depending on your room of course)
- Skip the apple displays
- Remember: cables WILL cost you A LOT!!!!
- Don't skip security and alarms + insurance
Good luck. Looking forward to seing the end result
- D112 for kickdrum doesn't sound optimal to me - you might want to check out re-20 or audix d6
- Get a pair KEL-HM1 microphones. Cheap as hell and sounds very good and different (they are a bit darker than your usual condenser, which actually works well for drums, depending on your room of course)
- Skip the apple displays
- Remember: cables WILL cost you A LOT!!!!
- Don't skip security and alarms + insurance
Good luck. Looking forward to seing the end result
unsilpauly
Member
i second a d6 instead of a d112 for kick.
you will love the vintech man, great pre for sure. the trues get some bad reviews by people who have never used them. if you cant get good sounds with it, the sounds arent good to begin with. i have used it and it is definetley a very noticable step up from the other eight channel pres that were discussed. i think you will be pleased. as far as conversion, the benchmark converters get good reviews as well. also mytek and lucid. check them all out if you can.
you will love the vintech man, great pre for sure. the trues get some bad reviews by people who have never used them. if you cant get good sounds with it, the sounds arent good to begin with. i have used it and it is definetley a very noticable step up from the other eight channel pres that were discussed. i think you will be pleased. as far as conversion, the benchmark converters get good reviews as well. also mytek and lucid. check them all out if you can.
blackcom - I use to have an API LunchBox setup with a pair of 512's, and a pair of eq's and comp's of the same series. I liked the sound, however, I absolutely LOVE the Avalon for vocals and acoustic guitars. I have not yet used it for mic'ing up guitar cabs, but I think it may be too warm for that, hence the reason I've never tried it. On vocals and acoustics though...wow, just wow. Also, the Vintech is a clone of the Neve 1073 module, so I've got a "Neve" pre on the list already.
You guys have to realize, this is just the list of stuff to get me started with my studio. I will be getting a UA 8110 8-channel preamp to replace the PreSOnus M80...but to start off with would kill me, I mean $5k??? That's for later on, the PreSonus is 8 channels of Class A too, however I'm sure the UA unit would be much nicer overall. I want to spend as much as little as possible to get it going...if that makes sense. Nothing cheap, per say, but keeping withing a $30k budget nicely. Because I still have to get cables, furniture, lighting, paint, acoustic treatments, and other odds-n-ends.
Basically this is how it breaks down. I should have about $37k saved for this year. And by the time I'm ready next year I'll have the same saved up. So $74k total, basically. $20k of that is the down on the house. $10k of that is for construction materials and acoustic treatments (98% of the construction will be done by myself and my father, both of us have tons of experience with building things), $30k is the budget for the actual gear, and that leaves me with +/- $14k left over. This is safety money to make sure I can pay my bills just in case my studio doesn't pick up as soon as I hope as well as bullshit money for crap like "oh my god, I forgot about the couch in the control room" or "shit, I need more cables" or "oh yeah, the cable porn subscribtion is due", yanno?
I've taken a lot of time to talk to my old friend that I use to work for whom owns a multi-million dollar studio to make sure I'm covering every aspect of doing this the right way. This won't be a little home project studio. This is going to be really professional grade stuff going in here, everything done right from the angles of the walls to the type of wood flooring I'll have. No corners are being cut, everything is done right the first time instead of having to go back and redo it. I hate that shit.
unsilpauly - I know what you mean man, I had a friend that hated how clear his drums sounded going through a rack of Focusrite ISA 4-channels compared to the Mackie 32x8 console we normally use here for drums. It's kind of funny how people can hate something just because it's actually better sounding. As in, they aren't use to it sounding so clear and pristine that it's actually sounding "bad" to them. I completely understand how nice the True pre's are...their range is what? 10Hz-500kHz or something crazy like that? I can't wait to hear a snare go through that thing.
Also, maybe you can help me out...I want to have assigned channels for each drum kit peice, but I don't know what will sound best through what. Kick through the True or the M80? Toms? Snare? Hats? Ride? OH's? I'm sure someone will say "it depends on the kit and player", but that's just how I do it. I will have a big patch system covering every single I/O available, so it's not a permanent assignment, but I'd mostly like to get an idea of what pre's work best with what peice of the kit.
Forgive me if I'm retarded...but maybe somebody can explain to me where the monitor outputs are on the RME? I can't figure out how I'm suppose to send a signal out to the Big Knob from it to use for monitors. Please don't tell me I'll be using a pair of the line outputs...
~e.a
You guys have to realize, this is just the list of stuff to get me started with my studio. I will be getting a UA 8110 8-channel preamp to replace the PreSOnus M80...but to start off with would kill me, I mean $5k??? That's for later on, the PreSonus is 8 channels of Class A too, however I'm sure the UA unit would be much nicer overall. I want to spend as much as little as possible to get it going...if that makes sense. Nothing cheap, per say, but keeping withing a $30k budget nicely. Because I still have to get cables, furniture, lighting, paint, acoustic treatments, and other odds-n-ends.
Basically this is how it breaks down. I should have about $37k saved for this year. And by the time I'm ready next year I'll have the same saved up. So $74k total, basically. $20k of that is the down on the house. $10k of that is for construction materials and acoustic treatments (98% of the construction will be done by myself and my father, both of us have tons of experience with building things), $30k is the budget for the actual gear, and that leaves me with +/- $14k left over. This is safety money to make sure I can pay my bills just in case my studio doesn't pick up as soon as I hope as well as bullshit money for crap like "oh my god, I forgot about the couch in the control room" or "shit, I need more cables" or "oh yeah, the cable porn subscribtion is due", yanno?
I've taken a lot of time to talk to my old friend that I use to work for whom owns a multi-million dollar studio to make sure I'm covering every aspect of doing this the right way. This won't be a little home project studio. This is going to be really professional grade stuff going in here, everything done right from the angles of the walls to the type of wood flooring I'll have. No corners are being cut, everything is done right the first time instead of having to go back and redo it. I hate that shit.
unsilpauly - I know what you mean man, I had a friend that hated how clear his drums sounded going through a rack of Focusrite ISA 4-channels compared to the Mackie 32x8 console we normally use here for drums. It's kind of funny how people can hate something just because it's actually better sounding. As in, they aren't use to it sounding so clear and pristine that it's actually sounding "bad" to them. I completely understand how nice the True pre's are...their range is what? 10Hz-500kHz or something crazy like that? I can't wait to hear a snare go through that thing.
Also, maybe you can help me out...I want to have assigned channels for each drum kit peice, but I don't know what will sound best through what. Kick through the True or the M80? Toms? Snare? Hats? Ride? OH's? I'm sure someone will say "it depends on the kit and player", but that's just how I do it. I will have a big patch system covering every single I/O available, so it's not a permanent assignment, but I'd mostly like to get an idea of what pre's work best with what peice of the kit.
Forgive me if I'm retarded...but maybe somebody can explain to me where the monitor outputs are on the RME? I can't figure out how I'm suppose to send a signal out to the Big Knob from it to use for monitors. Please don't tell me I'll be using a pair of the line outputs...
~e.a
