Kemper Profiling Amp

I think the Kemper and AxeFX attract fundamentally different people from the get-go, to be honest. I have relatively zero interest in software amp simulations and have never been a fan of the Axe's unique timbre. I realize that the KPA is also technically a software amp simulation but something about it sounds and feels inherently more amp-like than the Axe. I'm not interested in simulating amps, I'm interested in recalling recording chains.
 
^ what Jeff said. I think it's a fascinating concept to "save" a real amp tone... No tweaking, no worrying about "making it sound real" (given that it comes close enough to make no difference in a mix)... Totally different approach than the Axe-FX has...
 
Clark Kent said:
Those quotes from Cliff were taken WAY out of context. You guys should probably know where they came from. Basically someone was saying that Axe-II is too expensive since it's just basic hardware and it should be the same price as the KPA. Also he pointed out that all the inputs and outputs and every part in the Axe-Fx is usually the highest quality (=highest price) component. It was a question for Cliff. Not Cliff posting this information for no reason at all.

I agree that Cliff sees KPA as a threat and he shouldn't need to do so. But it's not like the same thing isn't happening at KPA forum. Still... when Cliff says stuff like this he's never lying. He always backs it up with facts. F.ex. he showed the price sheet for those processors on the forum.
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I really don't care about the component price X product price. Otherwise we should all complain about oil X gas price, T-shirt X cotton price...

Imagine some fancy brands against each other saying "wow, the Louis Vitton is bad because they use a 30 bucks leather, people are dumb and must buy our Herme purse that uses 50 bucks and is nicier".

Thats almost the same shit the guy from fractal said.

I tried both, Kemper and Axe Fx.
The KPA sounded best and is more usefull for me, since I can freeze my reamps in time and even reamp 2 guitars at once.

I wouldnt care if 5 years from now they both release a software only version of these products, also.
 
JeffTD said:
Because their target market isn't djent-head virgins on internet forums.
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+100000000!

JeffTD said:
I think the Kemper and AxeFX attract fundamentally different people from the get-go, to be honest. I have relatively zero interest in software amp simulations and have never been a fan of the Axe's unique timbre. I realize that the KPA is also technically a software amp simulation but something about it sounds and feels inherently more amp-like than the Axe. I'm not interested in simulating amps, I'm interested in recalling recording chains.
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Kemper is simple. Concept is easy and fast to work with. Axe-Fx is complicated. Meaning that it's not plugnplay. Meaning that you can do more things with it.

Which one is better at modeling amps? Let's not go there. It's a taste issue really. Scientifically the Axe-Fx is capable of running more complex algorithms but that doesn't mean it's better at modeling.

I'd love to hear the Kemper preamp sound without the cab modeling... is that possible?
 
Clark Kent said:
Which one is better at modeling amps? Let's not go there. It's a taste issue really. Scientifically the Axe-Fx is capable of running more complex algorithms but that doesn't mean it's better at modeling.

I'd love to hear the Kemper preamp sound without the cab modeling... is that possible?
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Yes, it is possible. I think that the general consensus is that the KPA's biggest advantage over the Axe FX is the cabinet modelling though.

I've had an Axe FX in the studio next to my Kemper for a few hours, and to be brutally honest, in the time that I spent comparing the two of them the Axe didn't get close, sorry. It felt stiff and like an impulse response compared to the Kemper that feels like a real amp. There are advantages with the Axe, especially routing and reliability(the KPA has frozen on me two or three times, never live or in rehearsal though). But when it comes to cab simulation, the KPA is in a different league to anything I've personally heard an Axe FX deliver. That's not to say that an Axe FX can't deliver album quality tones - it quite obviously can(so can Pod Farm) - but to my ears the Kemper just sounds better. It can't be completely random that all the big boys(Sneap, Richardson, Wagener etc.) have started using KPAs while Axe FXs haven't turned up on albums with that caliber of recording engineers. And there must be some reason that Cliff is so upset :)

I don't want to diss the Axe FX, I think that it's a fantastic and revolutionary product and some of the best live tones I've ever heard have been through Axe FXs(notably Meshuggah a couple of times). But my personal experience with both units gives me the opinion that the KPA is one step further along than what the Axe FX can deliver tonally.
 
B36arin said:
Yes, it is possible. I think that the general consensus is that the KPA's biggest advantage over the Axe FX is the cabinet modelling though.
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Aren't they both using IR technology? You can even load IR's into the Kemper now right?

IMO Axe-Fx stock cabs aren't that great. Recto2, Cali, German, Metal... those four are really good but have a lot of bass in them. The way I run things is that I use my own IRs and Ownhammer IRs in there. I expect the Kemper to get a lot better with the custom IR function since let's face it... the cab sound can probably be even more important than the amp sound.

I'd love to hear some of the KPA preamp signal without a cab. Could someone do it for me? Thanks in advance!!
 
Clark Kent said:
Aren't they both using IR technology? You can even load IR's into the Kemper now right?

IMO Axe-Fx stock cabs aren't that great. Recto2, Cali, German, Metal... those four are really good but have a lot of bass in them. The way I run things is that I use my own IRs and Ownhammer IRs in there. I expect the Kemper to get a lot better with the custom IR function since let's face it... the cab sound can probably be even more important than the amp sound.

I'd love to hear some of the KPA preamp signal without a cab. Could someone do it for me? Thanks in advance!!
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The Kemper is using some sort of dynamic convolution for the cabinet part, while the Axe FX is using static impulse responses. It seems to be the biggest difference between the two units when it comes to amp block modelling.

I played around with some of the stock cabs and I did some tone matching when I had the Axe, but didn't really get anything that I liked. I bought a pack of Redwirez Mesa 4x12" cabs, but Axe Edit wouldn't work on my Mac and I didn't have time to fix it.

I'll send some DIs through a Kemper patch with the cab turned off when I'm at the studio tonight.
 
B36arin said:
The Kemper is using some sort of dynamic convolution for the cabinet part, while the Axe FX is using static impulse responses. It seems to be the biggest difference between the two units when it comes to amp block modelling.

I played around with some of the stock cabs and I did some tone matching when I had the Axe, but didn't really get anything that I liked. I bought a pack of Redwirez Mesa 4x12" cabs, but Axe Edit wouldn't work on my Mac and I didn't have time to fix it.

I'll send some DIs through a Kemper patch with the cab turned off when I'm at the studio tonight.
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Hmm... but cabs don't add dynamics. The only dynamic difference would be the movement of the speaker while playing. And that's actually a huge difference. There was a comparison of that somewhere.

Would be nice to hear some preamp sounds! Thanks man! Most of the Axe-Fx preamps seems to have a roll-off before 16khz while real preamps don't have any roll-off. It would be extremely useful to study the KPA preamp.
 
Well, speakers do add a bit of dynamics due to the moving air and compress when they're pushed hard. The biggest limitation of most amp sims is that the cab part is only a static IR, which negates a few important parameters.

Anyway, here's one of Jeff's Rose Of Sharyn DIs(Gtr L1) running through only the KPA preamp sim with the cabinet turned off.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6455606/Rose%20of%20shary/KPA%20preamp%20mono.wav

And if anyone's curious, here are the rhythm guitar tracks running through the same 5150 profile on the KPA. Only HP/LP post processing, it's pretty late here so I couldn't be bothered with tweaking the KPA, just ran the DIs straight through it.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6455606/Rose%20of%20shary/Rose%20Of%20Sharyn%20Kapnas%205150.mp3
 
Cheers! Yeah, it's all four rhythm tracks. It's one of my own profiles, 5150 with a TS808 in front(which I later learned was the "wrong" way to do it) going through a slant Recto 4x12", miced with a single 57. Listening through laptop speakers today, there seem to be some annoying high end peaks going on, not sure if that's down to the profile or the Aviom system I used to reamp with. My guess would be that it's the profile.
 
Great tone in that RoS clip B36arin!! The reason I wanted to hear/measure the preamp section of the Kemper was because I've noticed that my Axe Ultra cuts out around 17khz. Real guitar preamps (Mesa and Orange preamps at least) don't cut out that early. Now that preamp signal of the Kemper that I got from B36arin cuts out at 14khz already but after that it comes extremely high. Also it has some EQ ice picks at 7khz, 10khz and 12khz. I don't know if all preamp signals are like that in the Kemper nor do I insinuate anything. (I have done so before.)

Here's a picture so you can see it yourself:
REAL_AXE_KEMPER_preamps.jpg


Now we all probably know that guitar frequencies past 10khz don't really matter much and in the mix they are inaudible anyways. However I feel that those frequencies are necessary for high fidelity credibility. Anyways.... interesting results here. :)
 
Yeah, that's interesting. It'd be really interesting to compare the same amp and then profile it and try to get an Axe FX to match it as close as possible. I can also crawl behind the rack and reamp through SPDIF to see if that makes any difference, as the Aviom doesn't always sound that stellar... Works great for bass reamping, which I've been using it for, but who needs 10k+ in a bass reamp? :)
 
Sure if it's no trouble... might as well see if there's a difference. :)

Something to notice: all sources were high gain and playing different riffs so test results below 500hz shouldn't be taken too seriously. :)

Also... not all real amps presence area is like that. F.ex. Mesa Dual Rectifier cuts out around 16-18khz where as Mesa Roadster looks just like the blue line above (which is an Orange Rockerverb btw).

I know many people might just ignore frequencies this high but the human ear can hear up to 20khz. And if you hate listening to 128kbps MP3s it's because they cut out at 16khz. :)
 
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