Keyboarists/ Pianoists

[Xanthochroid]

Sorry, but your an idiot.

Wow, thanks for a warm welcome to the Opeth forum. Geez, I'm sorry that I think metal is the best, and by the way I wasn't really insulting jazz, I was just saying I don't like it. As an experienced pianist, I HAVE played and studied jazz, so I DO know what I am talking about when I say that "Opeth's USE of abstract chords and scale changes shows jazz a thing or two."
Let me explain, as far as piano goes, jazz chords are simply played with some syncopation underlying the melody. Absolutely off the wall chord/scale changes usually have little or no transition. The way Opeth breaks up their chords and orchestrates their transitions is something I think jazz could make use of. I UNDERSTAND that the overlying melody or improvisation in jazz will usually serve as the transition between clashing chords, but Opeth takes a very innovative approach to taking apart these chords and dramatizing their transition.
btw, HLFreak, it's supposed to be "You're an idiot."

Two of the greatest guitar players I have ever heard or seen play was a blues/old rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist. Trust me there playing ability puts opeth to shame

I didn't mean to say that Opeth in particular are very technically skilled, but I think metal as a whole has produced some of the most skilled players.

If you're just gonna be childish and call me an "idiot" again then fuck off, at least present an argument. I think the way you interpreted what I said was that I don't think jazz players are skilled; I do, I just LIKE metal more.

PS:Thanks ScandinavianMetal for not being a total asshole.

 

[Braighs]

I think metal gives keys more freedom than most genres.
specifically the norweigian post-black metal scene.

 

[Don Corleone]

I think metal gives keys more freedom than most genres.
specifically the norweigian post-black metal scene.

dont agree on the first bit...metal is a guitar oriented genre.

keys are more abundant in jazz, classical, electronica and pop from any decade, basically.

 

[illidurit]

no way, children of bodom is way more creative than rachmaninoff

 

[Braighs]

I said "freedom" not "abundance".
you can put jazz/western/classical/rock in one song and not be too random.
see vintersorg, borknagar, arcturus, etc

CoB makes me flacid.

 

[westknife]

dont agree on the first bit...metal is a guitar oriented genre.

keys are more abundant in jazz, classical, electronica and pop from any decade, basically.

hmm ok don, i take back what i said about your hair, nice pwnage

 

[westknife]

also this guy xanthochroid guy still needs to explain what he means by "abstract chords" and "scale changes"

 

[JoeVice]

westknife, why don't you make an effort to relate what you know of opeth to what he said?

 

[westknife]

westknife, why don't you make an effort to relate what you know of opeth to what he said?

opeth uses mostly minor chords and fifths (power chords). that is, when they're using chords at all, most of their music is riff based.

1. there's no such thing as an "abstract chord," and if he just meant "complicated chord" then he was still wrong because opeth doesn't use 'em

2. i dunno what he means by "scale changes" either, but opeth's solos generally stick to one minor key. their songs sometimes meander into different keys, but rarely and basically this guy has no idea what he's talking about, q.e.d.

 

[JoeVice]

opeth uses mostly minor chords and fifths (power chords). that is, when they're using chords at all, most of their music is riff based.

1. there's no such thing as an "abstract chord," and if he just meant "complicated chord" then he was still wrong because opeth doesn't use 'em

2. i dunno what he means by "scale changes" either, but opeth's solos generally stick to one minor key. their songs sometimes meander into different keys, but rarely and basically this guy has no idea what he's talking about, q.e.d.

well, an abstract chord is hard to put a finger on...when compared to a 1,3,5 triad, the chords the drapery falls are abstract.

scale changes - yah...he could have meant key changes...or actual scale changes along with chord changes...a lot of metal bands use the same scale in a melody over an entire chord progression. opeth has a tendency to incorporate several scales into one melody.

 

[westknife]

well, an abstract chord is hard to put a finger on...when compared to a 1,3,5 triad, the chords the drapery falls are abstract.

examples plz kthx

 

[JoeVice]

the first section of the song is full of non-standard chords. the first chord is a 1,5,9,3,5,1...from low to high. by the numbers, its not very abstract...but the way it sounds is pretty luscious...pretty wide, thick...some pleasant dissonance. the song closure has some goofy chords at the acoustic/mike break in the middle. reverie has some abstract chords.

 

[a rofl nazi]

when they're using chords at all, most of their music is riff based.

everything in music is based on chords
riffs are just different arpeggio combinations
arpeggios are the seperate notes of chords played in succession

 

[MegaMoose]

Riffs aren't necessarily arpeggios.

 

[westknife]

everything in music is based on chords
riffs are just different arpeggio combinations
arpeggios are the seperate notes of chords played in succession

erm wrong, sorry

 

[Hlfreak]

Xanthochroid]Wow, thanks for a warm welcome to the Opeth forum. Geez, I'm sorry that I think metal is the best, and by the way I wasn't really insulting jazz, I was just saying I don't like it. As an experienced pianist, I HAVE played and studied jazz, so I DO know what I am talking about when I say that "Opeth's USE of abstract chords and scale changes shows jazz a thing or two."
Let me explain, as far as piano goes, jazz chords are simply played with some syncopation underlying the melody. Absolutely off the wall chord/scale changes usually have little or no transition. The way Opeth breaks up their chords and orchestrates their transitions is something I think jazz could make use of. I UNDERSTAND that the overlying melody or improvisation in jazz will usually serve as the transition between clashing chords, but Opeth takes a very innovative approach to taking apart these chords and dramatizing their transition.
btw, HLFreak, it's supposed to be "You're an idiot."

That is fine if you believe that metal is the best, that is up to taste. But to quote what you originally said:

What I meant was that as far as contemporary music goes, metal requires the most skill; well certain types of metal. I guess jazz ranks up there too, but I'm not gonna get anywhere playing that, and I just plain don't like it, besides, Opeth's use of scale changes and abstract chords shows jazz a thing or two!

To be honest saying that playing jazz is not going to get you anywhere doesn't make much sense. I guess I still don't understand how Opeth's use of scale changes and abstract chords shows jazz a thing or two. Perhaps you can show me? I am going to have to doubt that Opeth uses a ton of music theory in their playing.

 

[a rofl nazi]

erm wrong, sorry

 

[JoeVice]

Let me explain, as far as piano goes, jazz chords are simply played with some syncopation underlying the melody. Absolutely off the wall chord/scale changes usually have little or no transition. The way Opeth breaks up their chords and orchestrates their transitions is something I think jazz could make use of. I UNDERSTAND that the overlying melody or improvisation in jazz will usually serve as the transition between clashing chords, but Opeth takes a very innovative approach to taking apart these chords and dramatizing their transition.

yah, opeth creates a lot of clearly cut melody within the voices of their chords. i think that is one of their strong points in composition. instead of just playing the chord and being happy with it, they find the perfect voicing, and move the voices within that chord. jazz requires a bit more active listening to make connections. i guess i would call it more abstract. opeth's composition is always very up-front. comparing opeth to an entire genre is quite ridiculous though.