Krank VS. Mesa Boogie

[Matt Smith]

OK, here ya go--soundclips of the different cabinets so you can hear what a huge difference a different cab makes. Obviously this test is totally unscientific. I tried to match levels by ear and get the mic positioning as consistent as possible, but of course it's not going to be perfect. It's definitely good enough to hear the different sound/character of all these cabinets, though.
Forgive me for the sloppy performance of this Nevermore riff; again, I didn't have the time to get everything perfect. I thought the smaller Mesa cab ran away with this contest easily, and I thought the Krank cab sounded terrible miked up. This is with two different amps, the Krank Revolution and the Peavey 5150.

Krank Revolution:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)


Peavey 5150:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)

 

[circleofone]

i agree..wow, that krank sounds darn tight through that small boogie cab...yummy

 

[enduvus]

You're Killing me here Matt! I want a Krank! Although the 5150 clips didn't sound that bad. I do agree the small boogie cab sounds great! But the other boogie cab has a little more bottom end. What would it sound like if you recorded 1 track with one and another track with the other. It could have a massive sound when mixed together.

 

[Rick Pierpont]

OK, here ya go--soundclips of the different cabinets so you can hear what a huge difference a different cab makes. Obviously this test is totally unscientific. I tried to match levels by ear and get the mic positioning as consistent as possible, but of course it's not going to be perfect. It's definitely good enough to hear the different sound/character of all these cabinets, though.
Forgive me for the sloppy performance of this Nevermore riff; again, I didn't have the time to get everything perfect. I thought the smaller Mesa cab ran away with this contest easily, and I thought the Krank cab sounded terrible miked up. This is with two different amps, the Krank Revolution and the Peavey 5150.

Krank Revolution:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)


Peavey 5150:
Mesa Traditional (Smaller)

Krank Cabinet

Mesa Standard (Oversized)

Wow dude! That was a very cool comparison you posted there! I'd love to hear the Mark IV in the same setup for obvious reasons. THe Boogie cabs took it -- especially the small one! It is hard to believe what a difference cabinets can make - even from the same company! I think overall I liked the Krank through the small MB the best. That is a very nice sounding amp. Clean and tight!!

I think I made to get some pointers from you. We are recording right now and I'm not happy with the way my guitar sounds in the mix. I loved it by itself when we recorded, just not coming through now :-( I used my Mark IV (of course) Lead Channel through my MB cab and an EQ program on my Quadraverb. Other than that, it was virtually dry.

I know we double miced it - SM57 Beta and some nice Condenser mic that I can't remember right now. It sounds OK, I'm just not feeling that "in your face" live sound that I know comes out of it and is prevalent on just about every album these days. In retrospect, I wish I had used the Mark IV without the extra EQ for some of the tracks (they called for a gentler sound). I may go back and re-record them.

I'm even more unhappy with the other guitar and the drums (esp. kick and snare). Where did you learn all your stuff? Did you go to a recording school or is it all from trial and error, reading, and talking to people?

Inquiring minds want to know!! I'm looking forward to seeing the whole crowd in ATL next month! It sounds like life is treating you well based on your posts - glad to hear that!

Take care!

 

[Matt Smith]

Hey Rick! What's up man, good to see you here...

I agree with you; the cabinet used makes a HUGE difference and I think a lot of people don't realize that. I actually did record the Mark IV through the small Mesa cab and didn't like the sound of it...I don't know if I just didn't do a good job dialing it in that day or if I'm just tired of that sound or what, but it sounded really really scooped to my ears, and that was with the mids on 10. It's obviously a great amp of course, and I'm sure I could have dialed it in better. Here's the Mark IV clip.

As for the production stuff, I just learned from endless hours of hard work and practice, and asking a bunch of questions and reading a lot of stuff. I enjoy it now, though it can definitely be quite frustrating at times.
I would guess a big part of your problem is the 2-mic thing; I would personally lose the condenser if you're looking for an in-your-face Metal sound. Is this being recorded at a pro studio by a knowledgeable engineer? Because it would be really easy to introduce some serious phase problems that will thin your guitar sound right out if using 2 mics without being REALLY careful about placement (another thing I've learned the hard way before), but I'm sure your engineer knows this. See if you can get ahold of a regular SM57. If not, the Beta 57 is definitely usable, just watch the high end. Do you happen to remember how the Beta 57 was positioned?

If you want to send me the raw tracks to one of the songs, I'll see if I can do anything with it if you want...also, make sure your engineer records the direct signal out of the guitar in addition to the amp, because that can be a life-saver later if the guitar sound doesn't end up working in the mix because you can run it back through an amp and re-record it without having to play the whole thing again.

Good luck!

 

[Rick Pierpont]

Hey Rick! What's up man, good to see you here...

I agree with you; the cabinet used makes a HUGE difference and I think a lot of people don't realize that. I actually did record the Mark IV through the small Mesa cab and didn't like the sound of it...I don't know if I just didn't do a good job dialing it in that day or if I'm just tired of that sound or what, but it sounded really really scooped to my ears, and that was with the mids on 10. It's obviously a great amp of course, and I'm sure I could have dialed it in better. Here's the Mark IV clip.

As for the production stuff, I just learned from endless hours of hard work and practice, and asking a bunch of questions and reading a lot of stuff. I enjoy it now, though it can definitely be quite frustrating at times.
I would guess a big part of your problem is the 2-mic thing; I would personally lose the condenser if you're looking for an in-your-face Metal sound. Is this being recorded at a pro studio by a knowledgeable engineer? Because it would be really easy to introduce some serious phase problems that will thin your guitar sound right out if using 2 mics without being REALLY careful about placement (another thing I've learned the hard way before), but I'm sure your engineer knows this. See if you can get ahold of a regular SM57. If not, the Beta 57 is definitely usable, just watch the high end. Do you happen to remember how the Beta 57 was positioned?

If you want to send me the raw tracks to one of the songs, I'll see if I can do anything with it if you want...also, make sure your engineer records the direct signal out of the guitar in addition to the amp, because that can be a life-saver later if the guitar sound doesn't end up working in the mix because you can run it back through an amp and re-record it without having to play the whole thing again.

Good luck!

Hey Matt! Thanks for the warm welcome.

I expected a difference, but didn't realize just HOW big the difference would be. Out of the three cabs, I definitely liked the Krank the least. The amp sounds great, but the cab just didn't have as nice a tone as either Boogie cab. The small cab also sounded best with all three amps. No doubt that the Krank does sound awesome though!! Not that I minded the Mark IV, I think it sounded fine, but I think that the Krank would give you the tone you're looking for. Thanks for the samples!! I think the M/B cabinet I have would be closest to your "over-sized" one. It looks somewhat like yours, has half-open back, and different speaker in the top than the bottom.

Wow! So you learned the hard way. To answer your question about the set up, both mics were placed in front of the cabinet, about 1-2 feet away. Fairly close together but not exactly next to each other. Oddly enough, when you listened to just the 57 or the condensor, it sounded almost dead. However, using both at the same time really thickened it up. As far as the engineer doing the recording, that is Matt from Odin's Court. So there is somewhat of an experience issue with the whole project right now.

As far as the raw tracks, they're huge! I brought them home on a laptop and it was 28.3G for 7 songs. We are using Cubase SX. I have no problems with letting you check out some raw tracks; I can check with Matt and see if he has any issues with that. I doubt it that he would have any. So what would be the best way to get you said tracks?

Wow, I've never even thought of recording the raw guitar! So you take that track later and feed it out from the recorder through the amp of your choice and record that? Does that turn out the same as if the guitar were plugged directly into the amp? I really wish I did have something like that because I would like to change the rhythm tone used on some of the tracks. And I know that we'd really like to be able to experiment much more with Matt's guitar tone. We've talked about re-recording some of his al together. We won't even talk about the drums right now!

Thanks! And thanks for all of your help!

 

[Matt Smith]

OK, try this. Get a flashlight so you can see the speakers through the grille cloth (if it has cloth) and point the 57 directly at the center of the cone, about an inch away from the grille cloth. Then move it about a half-inch to an inch off-center. I'm not sure what the 2 different kinds of speakers are in your cab, but if it has Vintage 30s go for those because they record very well (as you heard from my clips--way better than the Eminence speakers in the Krank cab) and it's easy to mic the edge of the center cone because the center cone is so small on V30s. If you don't have V30s, just pick the best-sounding speaker. Adjust your amp's settings to get it to sound as killer as you can, and then you may need to fine tune the mic placement a tiny bit (and I do mean a TINY bit). If you can't get the low end to sound tight, pull the mic back just a hair. Just experiment. But track this 2 times (or 4 if you have the time) tightly, and it should sound huge.

What bit depth/sample rate are you recording at? If you can get the .wav files for one song to fit on 2 or 3 CDs, that would probably be the easiest way to get them to me unless you have any other ideas...

As for the direct output of the guitars, yup, that's exactly what it does. It's called "reamping" and I do it all the time. Best invention ever. I use this box to split my guitar signal AND to reamp:

http://www.littlelabs.com/redeye.html

If Matt has any questions tell him to e-mail me at theocracy(AT)theocracymusic(DOT)com. Good luck!

 

[Rick Pierpont]

OK, try this. Get a flashlight so you can see the speakers through the grille cloth (if it has cloth) and point the 57 directly at the center of the cone, about an inch away from the grille cloth. Then move it about a half-inch to an inch off-center. I'm not sure what the 2 different kinds of speakers are in your cab, but if it has Vintage 30s go for those because they record very well (as you heard from my clips--way better than the Eminence speakers in the Krank cab) and it's easy to mic the edge of the center cone because the center cone is so small on V30s. If you don't have V30s, just pick the best-sounding speaker. Adjust your amp's settings to get it to sound as killer as you can, and then you may need to fine tune the mic placement a tiny bit (and I do mean a TINY bit). If you can't get the low end to sound tight, pull the mic back just a hair. Just experiment. But track this 2 times (or 4 if you have the time) tightly, and it should sound huge.

What bit depth/sample rate are you recording at? If you can get the .wav files for one song to fit on 2 or 3 CDs, that would probably be the easiest way to get them to me unless you have any other ideas...

As for the direct output of the guitars, yup, that's exactly what it does. It's called "reamping" and I do it all the time. Best invention ever. I use this box to split my guitar signal AND to reamp:

http://www.littlelabs.com/redeye.html

If Matt has any questions tell him to e-mail me at theocracy(AT)theocracymusic(DOT)com. Good luck!

Hey Matt,

Sorry so long getting back to you, things have been crazy as usual. However, I did read your reply right away, we've just been trying to figure out a plan.

Thanks for all the advice and offer! We are going to re-record some of the guitars and bass this weekend and then I hope to burn the tracks for a song onto a DVD (you have a DVD reader I assume?) and see what you think. At this point, I think it isn't ready enough to have you check it out. Again, I do appreciate all your help though.

After talking to Matt, he told me that the 57 was mic'ed in more in accordance with your recommendation, it was the condensor sitting back a bit. I also like the re-amping idea and need to pick one of those little jewels up sometime soon. I can't remember the bit width and sample rate that we are using, but I'm sure that one song will fit on a DVD. Of course, I'll need your address to send it too at that time. Perhaps in the next week or so we'll have something to send.

Take care!

 

[Rick Pierpont]

Oh yeah, I meant to mention in my above post but I'm pretty excited because we just got an opening slot with Kamelot!! They are playing at Jaxx in Springfield, VA on Thursday Nov. 17, 2005. It is an all-ages show and tickets are only $25.

If anybody in the area wants to come, would like to save on TicketMaster charges, and help support local music at the same time, let me know. I can help out with getting you tickets since we are one of the supporting acts! EIther PM or email me at Rick at OdinsCourtBand DOT com.

 

[MilkAndCheese]

I really love my Krank head...it's weird how opinions of it are online though. Some people say they're the worst amps they've ever played, and other are blown away. Maybe Krank's quality control is bad and some lousy ones are getting through?

I'm thinking of pick up up a Krankenstein if I like the voicing...so far my Revolution has been fantastic!

 

[Chandala]

hey matt i have a question... i just bought a 6505+ well im picking it up tomorrow and i was wondering if you had any suggestions for the eq settings... its basically a 5150 and you had yours screaming so i figured id ask... thanks for the comparison... helped my decision making process alot


i play some pretty heavy stuff so bottom heavy is good for me ... my main question just involved the clarity you were pushing.... because you were rediculously clear for punchin that much gain... thank you in advance

 

[enduvus]

Here is an updated pic of me and my weapons of choice!

 

[VEHEMENCE]

krank.

 

[Truth Solution]

That Krank amp is really awesome! Too bad it is so hard to buy here in Europe ...

 

[Andyqaz]

Does anyone know where I can download the soundclips? They seem to have been deleted from the page...

 

[GUITARGOD777]

I'VE BEEN USING AND BOUGHT THE FRAMUS COBRA & DIEZEL VH4 HEADS. I HAD A CUSTOM YELLOW KRANK REVOLUTION 1 ORDERED TO MY DOOR AND SOLD IT ON EBAY A FEW MONTHS LATER. THE CLEAN IS FANTASTIC, BUT GAIN WISE, THIS AMP WAS NOT A HIGH GAIN HEAD, LIKE SO MANY PLAYERS THINK THEY ARE. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
THE AMPS I HAVE NOW:
DIEZEL VH4
ENGL POWERBALL & SAVAGE 120 HEADS
FRAMUS COBRA
SPLAWN MODIFIED MARSHALL 2210
VHT UL PITTBULL
PEAVEY 5150 & TRIPLE X
CARVIN LEGACY & X100B HEADS
MESA MARK IV
AMPED V4
MESA 2:90 POWERAMP
ROCKTRON VELOCITY 300 & 150 & 120 POWERAMPS

THE KRANK IS JUST AS GOOD AS A FEW OF THESE AMPS, AND THE NOISE WAS ALMOST NON EXSISTENT BUT SOMETHING ABOUT THE TONE. ALL AMP HEADS DO NOT HAVE THE LOW END I'M LOOKING FOR EXCEPT THE FRAMUS COBRA. EVEN THE $4,600 DIEZEL VH4 COULD USE MORE LOW END, BUT THAT'S MY ONLY COMPLAINT.
I LOVE BUYING AMPS AND HAVE HAD SOME ODD AMPS TOO LIKE KITTY HAWK AND RHINO BEAST HEADS AS WELL. I THINK TONE IS SUBJECTIVE OF COURSE, BUT AFTER PLAYING FOR OVER 25 YEARS, I DECIDED TO HAVE A GUY IN GERMANY BUILD ME AN AMP. IT WILL HAVE 22 TUBES, 5 CHANNELS, AND ALLOT OF THE BELLS AND WHISTLES MOST BOUTIQUE AMPS NOW HAVE. IT'S MY LAST TRY AND HOPEFULLY WILL GET IT IN EARLY 2007.
ANYWAY, MATT GOOD LUCK WITH THE KRANK!

 

[Spyderman-Hyderman]

I'VE BEEN USING AND BOUGHT THE FRAMUS COBRA & DIEZEL VH4 HEADS. I HAD A CUSTOM YELLOW KRANK REVOLUTION 1 ORDERED TO MY DOOR AND SOLD IT ON EBAY A FEW MONTHS LATER.!

yeah, I've heard that Yellow makes 'em sound different: