L-C-R mixing and request for few tips.

[myownsilence]

Ive recently begun playing with LCR mixing.

The concept is simple as I am sure many of you know. Keep everything either center or left and right including stuff like reverb, double tracking guitars and using a center panned guitar and left panned guitars faders to adjust for panning location and not using pan pots for instrument placement withing the L and C and R.

Its great and can leave space for creative freedom ie close miced drums, vocals etc.

I found that stuff sounded bigger, closer to my prefered sounds (Jens Borgren, and uh Don whats his name who did lacuna coils new album and linkin park stuff).

I use BFD and ezdrummer and stuff for drums but heres something I noticed.


My drums generally sound too bright, theres enough bottem in there to be satisfied without it sounding lumpy. Turning down overheads just removes the overheads, low passing them sound crap, yet I sense a darker quality to the sound on many reference albums I have. I would not say that mine stuff is sounding bad, just i am unsure as how my mixes will come across possibly tiring if too bright.

Do most mastering engineers deal with this stuff? I know you supposed to not have to do much as a mastering AE to a good mix, but do many of them dip the highs?


I appreciate bass placement is a big part of the balance, and also the hardest thing to manage due to it now being down in the 80 hz, more around 300hz seems to be the bass area. With distorted bass blended in for presence.


LCR has helped me with placement in a big way. If anyone has any tips or if anyone mixes like this please feel free to enlighten me. Its a bit of magic that I never knew existed, granted that its not some sort of preset way of mixing, but it certainly allows you to approach things in a methodical way and lets you experiment from a different angle. The science behind it makes sense even if it questionable.

 

[zvish]

I would like to know, how to pan Toms in this technique? ;|

 

[myownsilence]

Well you gotta realisde that from what I gather L-C-R is not a fixed deal of mixing.

Its a great starting point.

A lot of engineers learnt to mix this way due to SSL busses and stuff I dont even know about.

if you have close miced toms you can pan them where you want.

the idea being they should be nice and clear cos everything else is LCR.

 

[akarawd]

I just wanted to say about the OHs brightness - I've been using BFD since its first release and that brightness is sort of inherent. Better use less BD in the OHs (lower trim), so you don't have to cut as much. Real OHs (recorded with knowledge) don't behave like that.

Mastering engineers do deal with that stuff but there's only so much they can do without affecting the rest of the mix. My mastering engineer always tells me "you've got to be more daring with your top end", but as long as it's balanced they can work wonders.

Regards,
akarawd

 

[myownsilence]

I seem to have a bit of it in ezdrummer as well it must be cos they are samples, wonder what I can do daring wise?

 

[Jind]

There was a thread just a little while ago about this subject - see here : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/516857-l-c-r-mixing.html

 

[Fox Mulder]

Do most mastering engineers deal with this stuff? I know you supposed to not have to do much as a mastering AE to a good mix, but do many of them dip the highs?
/QUOTE]

One word: Saturation.

 

[colonel kurtz]

I would like to know, how to pan Toms in this technique? ;|

a lot of guys keep the toms down the middle

listen to black dahlia murder - nocturnal...it's pretty obvious on the opening fill to the album that the toms are all centered

 

[JeffTD]

listen to black dahlia murder - nocturnal...it's pretty obvious on the opening fill to the album that the toms are all centered

Not at all... the toms aren't panned super wide, but there is a definite separation going on there.


When doing LCR, you should pan the toms as you normally would - they're not constants, and thus fit anywhere.

Everything that's constant gets LCR'd for me (rhythm gtrs, bass, lead vox, kick, snare, OH, room, etc). Lead gtrs, toms, little octave bits, shakers, ear candy bits, vocal fx, etc... get put wherever I want them.

 

[Metaltastic]

Everything that's constant gets LCR'd for me (rhythm gtrs, bass, lead vox, kick, snare, OH, room, etc). Lead gtrs, toms, little octave bits, shakers, ear candy bits, vocal fx, etc... get put wherever I want them.

See, maybe it's because I've come to this whole mixing thing relatively recently (within the past 3-4 years), but it never once occurred to me to do it any other way, so when people have mentioned this LCR thing as being even slightly unorthodox, I dunno, I always thought there would be more to it than that! (for example, panning EVERYTHING LCR, which of course doesn't seem like the brightest idea)

 

[DaveBlack]

See, maybe it's because I've come to this whole mixing thing relatively recently (within the past 3-4 years), but it never once occurred to me to do it any other way, so when people have mentioned this LCR thing as being even slightly unorthodox, I dunno, I always thought there would be more to it than that! (for example, panning EVERYTHING LCR, which of course doesn't seem like the brightest idea)

overheads? I've always hard panned them to create a better stereo image for the drums.

 

[Metaltastic]

Wait...what? When did I say anything about not hard-panning OH's?

 

[JeffTD]

See, maybe it's because I've come to this whole mixing thing relatively recently (within the past 3-4 years), but it never once occurred to me to do it any other way, so when people have mentioned this LCR thing as being even slightly unorthodox, I dunno, I always thought there would be more to it than that! (for example, panning EVERYTHING LCR, which of course doesn't seem like the brightest idea)

Same, but I hear a lot of people going in about 80% on the second set of rhythm gtrs, which I find to cloud the mix up terribly. Backing vocals and harmonies are another biggie that people don't always hard pan. Those are the only two that really come to mind, but those are two that can really, really widen things up and clear up a mix if hard panned instead of put inward a bit.

 

[DaveBlack]

whoops my bad metal, I just read it wrong and quoted the wrong person lol

 

[Metaltastic]

Same, but I hear a lot of people going in about 80% on the second set of rhythm gtrs, which I find to cloud the mix up terribly. Backing vocals and harmonies are another biggie that people don't always hard pan. Those are the only two that really come to mind, but those are two that can really, really widen things up and clear up a mix if hard panned instead of put inward a bit.

Hmm, good point, I don't ever quad-track so I never futzed with the second pair of guitars, but you always hard pan vocal harmonies? I dunno, I've heard songs where it sounds like that's done, and I kinda don't like how separated everything sounds tbh, for vox I prefer a little more overlap I guess! (though if it's like counterpoint layering, e.g. bringing in a vocal line from another part of the song over the final chorus, then that could be different, but still...)

And Dave, no prob dude, it happens

 

[beyond dead]

I dont pan my drum oh`s 100 percent. only about 60-80

 

[zvish]

ok cool, but why I often hear for example Right guitar on left speaker too (when only one guitar play)? Maybe there is delay panned on the opposite site

 

[Metaltastic]

ok cool, but why I often hear for example Right guitar on left speaker too (when only one guitar play)? Maybe there is delay panned on the opposite site

You do? I find I rarely hear that...

 

[zvish]

You do? I find I rarely hear that...

check your pw dude

 

[JeffTD]

ok cool, but why I often hear for example Right guitar on left speaker too (when only one guitar play)? Maybe there is delay panned on the opposite site

On single guitar parts I automate things in to 75 or 80 - hard panned on solo bits with just rhythm gtr or something sounds weird as hell.