L-C-R Mixing

Other than toms and occasional guitar leads, I always mix L-C-R. I didn't know this was a "technique"

Am I missing something? I thought everyone panned this way.
 
tbh, i'd NEVER go as far as taking this approach, unless i was mixing a very straightforward song, like ac/dc style.....not even then, i suppose.

as far as i am concerned, as a listener rather than a mix engineer, i'm into stuff that manages to grab my attention, yet does not get boring after a few listens....and i'm sure many people will agree with me here.
so, ask yourself, what is it about your favorite records that you've listened to countless times, yet you'll sometimes notice new little things even after so much time? is it the songwriting? certainly.
however, i definitely think that little production extras also play a LARGE role into this whole "keep it interesting" thing. and as far as i am concerned, careful panning IS one of these so important production extras.

it's true that panning most things hard left/right will make you get better separated mixes in less time, but think about it - da vinci didn't do his masterclass paintings in one day, did he? it certainly took him quite some time, and i feel the same about serious mixes. to me it's not a bad thing at all to get your basics sorted out pretty quickly, but once the creative process kicks in (e.g. automation etc) i couldn't ever limit myself to only 3 panning positions, as it would get boring real quick.

think about it, do you limit yourself to only one aux send per track? only one layer of automation for the lead vocal?

once again, it obviously depends on the effect you're shooting for. for maximum impact, you could manage to make decent mixes with only hard panning. most dew scented stuff is like this, for example. however, would that very same approach work for a band like katatonia, or opeth?
listen to the great cold distance, ghost reveries, whatever....there's tons of little things all over the place. and while you might not really notice it unless you're looking for it, it certainly adds to the bigger picture.
and imho, that's what it's about.
 
What is everyone not panning hard or center?

Accenting leads that occur simultaneously with vox, mainly! And multi-layered vox (especially screams), those are close to hard panned, but I bring 'em in to like 70-75 cuz I don't like complete separation (I prefer it to sound like one massive demonic voice rather than two/three different ones)
 
mostly background stuff, like lead guitars playing octaves etc, things you don't really notice but that add up to the atmosphere of the track.
also, background vocals and choirs, harmony guitars, clean guitars, layered stuff....there's also stuff being automated to sort of swim through the stereo field, mostly on ambient lead guitar stuff - think opeth.
 
think opeth.

that's my life motto

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Regardless of your thoughts on the matter I suggest everyone read the entire article to grasp what the author is speaking about. My interests simply lie in the science behind these sorts of things - thats what I find interesting about it - I want to know "how" we hear or "why" we do what we do instead of taking it for granted.
 
Regardless of your thoughts on the matter I suggest everyone read the entire article to grasp what the author is speaking about. My interests simply lie in the science behind these sorts of things - thats what I find interesting about it - I want to know "how" we hear or "why" we do what we do instead of taking it for granted.

I totally get your point, this guy really has a way of getting to the total root of things and yet making it understandable, I'm loving it
 
I suppose this is less relevant for metal and hard rock than it is for types of music where there are more different instruments. In metal it's pretty much obvious where everything should go and it's pretty much always LCR (except for toms).
 
I will read this when I have time!

L-C-R seems to kill some of the fun but then again... it IS the bread and butter in most heavy music genres but I can totally make exceptions for synths and samples and stuff... it's always fun to toy around with the panning on those kind of things.
 
Another name for L-C-R style mixing is Cardinal Points Pan Law proposed by producer Terry Manning ala AC/DC "Back in Black" and ZZ Top "Tres Hombres" - here are some other really interesting links to posts about it including posts from Terry.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/13724/0/

PS - I like discussions like this - about the merits of methodologies and such - I find it more interesting than just the "how do I question and answer topics". I like hearing others experiences and others opinions on them. Plus I firmly believe in trying something out for yourself rather than taking things as gospel just because so and so said so. With that said take it or leave it or work it into your toolbox of skills if you find it interesting, but always remember that the devil is in the details and rather than just doing something in one manner, always try other manners so you can truly form an opinion.
 
Yes! I forgot about that thread. Great stuff there.

Don't forget that I am talking about monaurally recorded sources, and I do not mean every source, every time, only on L-C-R. This is a concept, and is meant to take one out of the mindset that every mono source ought, out of habit, to be panned "somewhere else" other than L-C-R each and every time. Keep things basic and simple UNTIL you NEED to do something special or different.

One thing I think IS funny is that many people will work so hard panning one thing 80%-80%, then another thing 73%-73%, then another 68%-71%, etc., trying to find that "little hole" where things "fit together in space" and can "pop out." Then they complain that they want to widen the whole stereo field! How about actually USING IT for a change?
 
I used to think this method sounded stupid and refused to try it, but it's definitely how I work these days. The only things that get non-L-C-R pannings for me are toms, misc. fx tracks, and guitar solos.
 
The only things that get non-L-C-R pannings for me are toms, misc. fx tracks, and guitar solos.

Big +1

In initially clicking on this thread and reading, I thought to myself that this process and method seemed really limiting, until I popped open some of my mixes and see that I pretty much already do this.

Just like DSS3, aside from solos, some FX (vox and guitars mainly) and toms, everything is panned pretty hard...Heck, even my toms are. Usually on a 4 tom setup, I'll pann the highest and lowest toms like 75% to each side, with the middle ones anywhere from 40-60% to each side. I've had some people say it sounds too "big", but as long as the overheads don't have too much of the spacial location of the toms, I love how big it can make the mix.

The idea of L-C-R mixing only hammers the importance of fitting instruments into small sonic spaces even more apparent (i.e. frequency manipulation more so than spacial manipulation), and IMO my biggest hurdle to getting the mixes I want. I still can't wrap my head around how pro's get the guitar to sound SO big, the drums SO big, the vocals SO present and the bass SO big and still have them so seperated...Of all things AE related, learning/perfecting that aspect is what I want to learn the most.
 
Oh yeah, HH doesn't get panned hard for me... it's more like 75%, but that falls under the same principle as the toms kind of.

I'm just sitting here thinking of constants you're dealing with in a mix...

Kick
Snare
OH
Bass
Gtrs L/R
Vox

Which of those really belongs anywhere but L/C/R? I know a lot of you guys are into the 80% panning of 2 guitar tracks, but that's always sounded way cluttered for me. Background vocals? I still pan those hard L/R, makes the vocal track sound bigger than it otherwise would.
 
Edit: Opps - thought you said OH not HH.

Oh yeah, HH doesn't get panned hard for me... it's more like 75%, but that falls under the same principle as the toms kind of.

From what I was reading in one of the threads - once again just my interpretation of what I read, is that overheads panned hard left and right (if not sounding correct) should be corrected with mic positioning, and not panning after the fact. In other words fix it before you track it - if I'm reading correctly.

Does anyone else read it that way?