Let's discuss what's the maximum speed for double kick drums

[AD Chaos]

Hey guys

I've been wondering as to what the 'limit' would be for a realistic counterpart of a programmed double bass speed; in other words, what's the maximum speed that can be written (provided one could later on ask a skilled player to perform) without it sounding too mechanical, unnatural, or even boring?

For instance, I'm fiddling with a riff at 300bpm doing either eighth-note triplets on the kick, or sixteenth-notes, both of which sound fairly doable, but I'm wondering if taking it up to sixteenth-note triplets for short amounts of time is too much.. (even though I think I heard a song in someone's work in here with a similar tempo)

Obviously programming doesn't have the limitations of human counterparts; add to that the machine gun effect of some stock midi loops that makes it harder to figure out (for me, at least, not having much experience with real drummers) if a certain speed is 'too much', or not.

My guess is many factors are to be considered, too (skill of the player, duration of the double bass part, what's being played in before and after the part, duration of the song, etc), besides the somewhat subjective opinion of what sounds good or not...

What is your take on it?
Feel free to post clips if you have/know some!


Thanks much for your opinions

 

[RedDog]

Meth = all is possible.

 

[ATLA]

my buddy alan hit 280 16ths singles in IRON COBRA's with zero triggers. my mind was blown. he could do 300 but not for too long without losing it. i think 260 is what a lot of guys top out at. unless its the deathmetal big shots. longstreth, kolias, rody, cooper ect.

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

Well, unnatural guitar and vocals all ready exist with that short sharp, protoolsed to death and chopped from hell and back playing uke:, that I don't think kicks would be to quick whatever the speed.

 

[bassguy]

I have a feeling that George Kolias is some kind of drum playing robot though

edit (forgot to tie this in to the actual thread...) :: I feel like around 300 is where it gets so fast that it sounds super fake on constant 16ths, especially with samples, it just sounds like it's all one velocity and has that machine gun effect. Sometimes doesn't even sound like a kick anymore, unless you programmed it to be much more varied in super fast parts, like kolias in those last few BPM's, the hardness of the hits starts wavering a little

 

[Fox Mulder]

250bpm

 

[ArnaudM]

Well, depends. I think 260 is one of the highest limit. But you can cheat using giant steps pedals.
Henker's drummer uses it. The video is funny enough. I share with joy :

 

[colonel_claypoo]

I hate sine waves!

 

[AD Chaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnxm1qh_1rw

I have a feeling that George Kolias is some kind of drum playing robot though

And on the right foot only, too!

Thanks for that link Arnaud, might have heard about that pedal sometime, never saw it in action before though!

That kind of speed I'd personally only see fit for a brief period of time (like in the final repeats of a single riff) and only if the song really allows for it- otherwise it does get old 'real fast', imo.

 

[AboutBlank]

The kolias technique is soo awesome...

Karel does it too:




(One of my favourite drummers)

 

[Clark Kent]

It'b awesome if a drummer could play that fast but keep it clean so that you don't have to quantize the hell out of it in post processing. I feel like most if not all high speed double kick and blastbeats fail at being tight and keeping time but it's understandable.

I don't think there is a need for that kind of speed in any genre of music but the ability to play that fast and think about grooves as 32th notes etc. will make a drummer sound soooooo much tighter. I'm rambling offtopic now.

 

[The StabbinCabin]

If you find a session drummer that has heel-toe technique down and don't mind triggers- 300 bpm range would definately be pretty fluid

 

[ArthurD]

Thats so Unmusical