Lets talk high end studios for the Noob..

guitarguru777

guitarguru777

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Nov 13, 2003
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So being a some what of veteran at this point of the small project studio I am considering beginning my savings for the studio I would like to build. Taking things seriously I have been looking into ProTool, Mac's (yes i said it, ok so sue me ..lol) and some an SSL Mixing Console.

I have been thinking about singal flow and how it all works. Not having any experience with an actual SSL Console i was thinking about how it all actually works together with ProTools.

My guess would be that you are just using the SSL as a summing mixer before it hits the interface. So it would be something like....The SSl itself I would think is not the interface, just a go between to get that sound.

Cab > Mic > SSL > Interface > ProTools.

My question is more coming back out.....

I am guessing the SSL has multiple routing configurations so it would be able at the flick of a switch or push of a button re-route everything so that now it receives from the DAW, and has the ability to control the DAW like a control surface but at the same time routing inserts and sending the signal from the DAW to the monitors.

I know this is a long way away from actually happening from me, and probably most of us here, but its something I really want to start looking into as I start planning for retirement and what I am going to do after I tell my 9-5 to fuck off ....lol

Any input would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks

Oh also would something like the XDesk be a good idea for a home project studio. 8ch of SSL sound and beauty for $3k doesn't seem so bad :)
 
guitarguru777 said:
My guess would be that you are just using the SSL as a summing mixer before it hits the interface. So it would be something like....The SSl itself I would think is not the interface, just a go between to get that sound.

Cab > Mic > SSL > Interface > ProTools.
Click to expand...

If you get an expensive SSL desk such as one of the 4k series, you will most likely want to use it for mixing, not just as a really pricey preamp and summing mixer. Most analog inline console setups I've worked with have been routed like this:

Mic > Console > Interface > DAW > Interface > Console > Stereo mix/Buses back to the DAW.

Can't give you any advice about the SSL's in particular, as I have never used them big fuckers.
 
Jarkko Mattheiszen said:
If you get an expensive SSL desk such as one of the 4k series, you will most likely want to use it for mixing, not just as a really pricey preamp and summing mixer. Most analog inline console setups I've worked with have been routed like this:

Mic > Console > Interface > DAW > Interface > Console > Stereo mix/Buses back to the DAW.

Can't give you any advice about the SSL's in particular, as I have never used them big fuckers.
Click to expand...

+1

I have used an ssl before with protools hd. it's been awhile, but i'll try and explain my basic understanding of it.

All of your audio input channels on the ssl are multi-tracked into protools. Then, the audio is sent back out to the ssl from protools. The ssl has 2 faders, one that controls the input into protools, and one that controls your mix on the ssl. Your monitors would be connected to the main output of the ssl.

You can set it up so that your eq and compression on each channel is recorded into protools (pre fader), or protools just gets just whats coming out of the preamp (post fader). There are benefits to either method and downfalls to either method. Hope this helps somewhat. Feel free to correct me if I made any mistakes.
 
Machinated said:
how do you know you want an SSL if you dont know what its for?
Click to expand...

I have been in bands that have recorded on SSL gear back in the early 90s and since then I have never gotten the same sound out of any system I have personally used. Back then I had little knowledge of recording in general but I knew I liked what I had heard.

They just really lend this overall "sound" to a mix that its just .... well SSL ...lol

I have since heard tons of productions on them and I just love that sound.


As for upkeep and maintenance I am completely away then are a NIGHTMARE. But its that sound man, its like that one guitar or that one amp. i just gotta have it!!
 
SSL's are exactly famed for their pre's - not that they are bad at all, but neve/API/etc consoles will be probably better for tracking.

SSL's are known for mixing on - you can use pro tools in a number of ways depending on how much outboard you plan on using. some guys just use it as a "tape deck" and for editing, other people will use it kind of hybrid-ly with the SSL and outboard. also you can use PT for automation if you choose.
 
Damn, I should look into producing porn as well if it makes for an SSL-equiped studio. :loco:

Which console are you looking at? I'm not really sure if they make analog-only consoles anymore these days. Also none of the currently available models seem to have the second fader. But there's probably a button the allows you to switch what the fader is used for.
 
Machinated said:
SSL's are exactly famed for their pre's - not that they are bad at all, but neve/API/etc consoles will be probably better for tracking.

SSL's are known for mixing on - you can use pro tools in a number of ways depending on how much outboard you plan on using. some guys just use it as a "tape deck" and for editing, other people will use it kind of hybrid-ly with the SSL and outboard. also you can use PT for automation if you choose.
Click to expand...

yup I've been in studios with desks like the Amek 9098i and most of the time Pro Tools is used as a digital tape machine, and you can do automation either in PT or on the actual desk itself with real faders

the desks usually have dual inputs, one for the mic input and one for the monitoring input from pro tools

the way the Amek desk was set up was that there was a bank of buttons on the top of the channel and the number of the button you punched corresponded to the input in Pro Tools, so if you punched "1" that channel would go to input 1

it also had 2 sets of faders on each channel, one was for the mic input and the other was for the monitoring input
 
if you are looking at something like an SSL 4k Maintenance will be you worst nightmare, that is if you can actually find a good one in the first place.
i work as a maintenance engineer for a well known broadcaster that still has a fair few analogue desks - not SSL but very similar and we have constant problems with the upkeep of the analogue desks.
Capacitors failing, Switches crackling not latching/breaking that are obsolete, pots ans faders crackling are just the minor problems,
The power supplies generally need to be on 24/7 as many analogue desks that contain logic such as the SSL's go all screwey if you de-power/re-power them often, they make a lot of heat and cost a lot in electricity and again capacitors, regulators etc fail when they are as old as a 4k.
And this is coming from someone who knows what to do in this kind of situation, if you dont know anything/much about electronics you will need regular visits from a maintenence technician/engineer which will be costly and cause down time.
If you get one with automation, the automation computers will most likley be on their last legs too.
For this reason id urge you to keep it simpler/better imo and cheaper, get some nice pre's in a rack for your front end and a nice summing buss for the mix and then use protools with a C24/Control 24/Procontrol/Icon/D-control/Euphonix whatever control surface for the faders editing and automation it will be afar slicker setup and far more trouble free and you will be able to tailor the sound to what you want ie API pre's SSL Mix bus neve compressors or whatever.


My 2 pence for what its worth
 
A few things to consider....

For the price you would pay for an SSL (assuming you got a 40-56 channel 4000 G or G+) you could build the most bad ass hybrid system, without all the maintanence/power/frustration of running an SSL studio.

I've been locked up in an SSL room for the better part of 6 months, and trust me when I say this:

An SSL, even in the best of condition, is just not worth owning anymore.

Lets say you budget 65,000 USD to get an SSL (50,000 for the console, 10,000 for commissioning, and 5000 for replacement cabling or parts), plus an additional 7500-10000 a year on power and maintanance.....

With that kind of money you could get:

-HD3 with 3 192s-----26485 (THATS LIST PRICE)
-Chandler summing--6,840.00
-4X BAE1073-----10,600
-2x distressors---2464
-2x1176----------4000

That just abit over 50,000 dollars.

That leaves 15,000 for monitoring/microphones....plus the 7000-10000 a year you were planing on spending on power...

Basically the point of all this is this:

You can have an SSL, or you can have a studio that'll be multipurpose, functional and won't break down on you nearly as much.
 
Those are all excellent points.

May have to do some re-thiking on this. But my budget (if my accountant worked all this out right) will be around 125k to get everything built out, installed, configed, and running.

Hes thinking 8 to 10 years, and I know technology changes a shit ton iwthin that time frame, but I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "BIG STUDIO" thing. I want to build a room that the pros can feel comfortable coming into and working like they are used to.

Like I said I know 8 years is a long ass time in this industry, but I figure the more I learn now, the better prepared I will be later. :)

Suggestions are definitely welcome :)
 
guitarguru777 said:
I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "BIG STUDIO" thing. I want to build a room that the pros can feel comfortable coming into and working like they are used to.
Click to expand...

25514d1161158616-digidesign-icon-issues-list-brian-icon.jpg


"Big" and "Pro" enough for ya ? :)

In ten years this will be obsolete too, i supposed the new neve custom75 might well be a good choice.
 
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