Let's talk live recording...

[Arsenu,]

Hello guys!
here's the thing:
i really like capturing live shows. in fact, i think a high quality live recording is way better than a studio album (see 'Testament - Live In London', 'Metallica - Live Shit', *add your own*)

now, i used to record live shows using my beloved MOTU Traveler + Macbook, but since my mac was stolen, i need to revive my live multi-tracking capabilities and hopefully upgrade to at least 16 tracks this time.

what i currently have now is the MOTU Traveler and a Presonus FP10 which together sum up to 16 tracks, 12 of which include a pre-amp (a must!)
i was looking into some ADAT's that seem pretty cool but so far most of them seem to only be able to record 8 channels simultaneously and the ones that aren't, such as the Alesis HD24, are freakin' expansive!

anyway i'll cut to the chase:
1. what's the best/cheapest way to get a proper setup with at least 16-channels?
(assuming i have a laptop, since i can borrow one from a friend for now)


2. since most laptops have only 1 FW input, is it possible to get more than 1 FW interface running on a laptop? if so, how?

3. ADAT is always cool, but the Presonus FP10 doesn't have it. it does, however, have an SPDIF in/out. iv'e never used an SPDIF tough, so anyone knows if i can connect it through the MOTU Traveler using an SPDIF cable and use it like ADAT? how does that work?

Cheers, and thanks for any input!

 

[arv_foh]

Hello guys!
here's the thing:
i really like capturing live shows. in fact, i think a high quality live recording is way better than a studio album (see 'Testament - Live In London', 'Metallica - Live Shit', *add your own*)

now, i used to record live shows using my beloved MOTU Traveler + Macbook, but since my mac was stolen, i need to revive my live multi-tracking capabilities and hopefully upgrade to at least 16 tracks this time.

what i currently have now is the MOTU Traveler and a Presonus FP10 which together sum up to 16 tracks, 12 of which include a pre-amp (a must!)
i was looking into some ADAT's that seem pretty cool but so far most of them seem to only be able to record 8 channels simultaneously and the ones that aren't, such as the Alesis HD24, are freakin' expansive!

anyway i'll cut to the chase:
1. what's the best/cheapest way to get a proper setup with at least 16-channels?
(assuming i have a laptop, since i can borrow one from a friend for now)


2. since most laptops have only 1 FW input, is it possible to get more than 1 FW interface running on a laptop? if so, how?

3. ADAT is always cool, but the Presonus FP10 doesn't have it. it does, however, have an SPDIF in/out. iv'e never used an SPDIF tough, so anyone knows if i can connect it through the MOTU Traveler using an SPDIF cable and use it like ADAT? how does that work?

Cheers, and thanks for any input!

1. Best/cheapest do not coincide with each other.. you either get one or the other. Since you are taking taps off the console you are subject to the console preamps and how shitty/not shitty they sound. Some direct outs are pre-EQ, some are post EQ, some are pre fader, some are post fader, so it's possible you will hear changes the engineer makes during the set.

I believe when the FP10 is not connected to a computer the 8 outputs on the back act as direct outs (I'd check to make sure before you buy stuff), so you can use 4 of those preamps direct outs to the line inputs on the MOTU for 8 total preamps then buy a Behringer ADA8000 for 8 more over ADAT.

The 2nd cheapest (and easier routing) solution would be 2 Behringer ADA8000 into your MOTU via ADAT A and ADAT B for 20 inputs.

2. You will not be able to cascade your interfaces and use all the preamps even with 2 FW inputs.

3. SPDIF is only capable of transmitting 2 channels.

Keep in mind you will also need a 16 channel TRS snake to tap direct outputs on the console.

 

[Arsenu,]

1. Best/cheapest do not coincide with each other.. you either get one or the other. Since you are taking taps off the console you are subject to the console preamps and how shitty/not shitty they sound. Some direct outs are pre-EQ, some are post EQ, some are pre fader, some are post fader, so it's possible you will hear changes the engineer makes during the set.

I believe when the FP10 is not connected to a computer the 8 outputs on the back act as direct outs (I'd check to make sure before you buy stuff), so you can use 4 of those preamps direct outs to the line inputs on the MOTU for 8 total preamps then buy a Behringer ADA8000 for 8 more over ADAT.

The 2nd cheapest (and easier routing) solution would be 2 Behringer ADA8000 into your MOTU via ADAT A and ADAT B for 20 inputs.

2. You will not be able to cascade your interfaces and use all the preamps even with 2 FW inputs.

3. SPDIF is only capable of transmitting 2 channels.

Keep in mind you will also need a 16 channel TRS snake to tap direct outputs on the console.

Thanks for a very helpful reply!
tbh i was semi-expecting someone to know of a reasonably priced 16-track ADAT machine, but if that doesn't exist i guess i'll have to go ADAT interface chain instead. you also saved me the trouble of finding out how shitty SPDIF is on my own, so thanks again.

just one thing tough... let's say i'm... allergic... to the name Behringer, what other reasonably priced 8pre interface w/ADAT can you recommand?
so fire iv'e checked out the MOTU 8pre, Presonus Firestudio and Mackie ONYX Blackbird. all are about the same price so a good recommendation would be helpful in this case.

p.s.
Cables are always a joy in this trade... i know i need a snake and actually i need more than one, so if anyone is selling 2/3 stereo snakes (germany/EU) not longer than 3m PM me!

 

[if6was9]

They do make a few machines that track straight to hard drive. Allen and heath ice 16 is the cheapest one I've seen that looks any good and they're 1k. With these you don't need a laptop.

The behringer ada8000 are one of the few products they have worth owning. Shits all over everything in usefulness up to around 800€ and actually isn't that bad quality. Alot of folks say the conversion is actually pretty good.

 

[Charlie E.]

Been gasing for that Allen & Heath unit for a while now. I believe they're coming out in March. Can't wait.

 

[Arsenu,]

Thanks man!
I think i'm gonna go MOTU 8pre on this one both because i already own a MOTU and because it's useful both in the studio and in a live situation.
About the Behringer: your have to keep in mind that although it might actually sounds decent, in this business the way you present yourself both to clients as well as fellow AEs is very important,
and showing up to a gig with a Behringer might make you look unprofessional among the other AEs.
i know it might sounds stupid, but you do have to keep those things in mind. i know if i met someone who uses a Behringer DI to track guitars for example, having not heard his work, i might think less of him as an AE, i'd most likely will actually.

 

[arv_foh]

They do make a few machines that track straight to hard drive. Allen and heath ice 16 is the cheapest one I've seen that looks any good and they're 1k. With these you don't need a laptop.

The behringer ada8000 are one of the few products they have worth owning. Shits all over everything in usefulness up to around 800€ and actually isn't that bad quality. Alot of folks say the conversion is actually pretty good.

They are releasing the ada8200 (supposedly by the end of the year) which has the same Midas designed preamps that are in the X32 console and S16 stage box. They are very nice sounding preamps, by the way.

 

[Arsenu,]

Thanks man!
I think i'm gonna go MOTU 8pre on this one both because i already own a MOTU and because it's useful both in the studio and in a live situation.
About the Behringer: your have to keep in mind that although it might actually sounds decent, in this business the way you present yourself both to clients as well as fellow AEs is very important,
and showing up to a gig with a Behringer might make you look unprofessional among the other AEs.
i know it might sounds stupid, but you do have to keep those things in mind. i know if i met someone who uses a Behringer DI to track guitars for example, having not heard his work, i might think less of him as an AE, i'd most likely will actually.

 

[arv_foh]

Thanks man!
I think i'm gonna go MOTU 8pre on this one both because i already own a MOTU and because it's useful both in the studio and in a live situation.
About the Behringer: your have to keep in mind that although it might actually sounds decent, in this business the way you present yourself both to clients as well as fellow AEs is very important,
and showing up to a gig with a Behringer might make you look unprofessional among the other AEs.
i know it might sounds stupid, but you do have to keep those things in mind. i know if i met someone who uses a Behringer DI to track guitars for example, having not heard his work, i might think less of him as an AE, i'd most likely will actually.

well you said cheapest so I was just going by your specification.. there are obviously better/comparable 8 channel ADAT preamps units out there

 

[Charlie E.]

My friend was telling me yesterday about his RME Fireface UFX.
I had no idea it had usb stand alone recording like the Allen & Heath Ice 16. That's pretty sick! 4 preamps 12 ins, adat etc and also the ability to record stand alone without laptop is pretty damn good.

 

[egan.]

Yeah. The UFX is cool that way. The only weird thing is that it encodes them to surround wav's on fat 32 so you have to decode and recombine everything and then rename it which is a little annoying. I've only ever done 4 tracks at a time but I imagine if you had a full band it would get annoying to have to go back and rename everything and make sure what's what.

 

[Charlie E.]

Wow that does sound like a chore.
Not like I was going to get it anyway since it looks to be about double the price of the Allen & Heath unit, and I already own a nice interface. I could see someone getting it as their main interface however and having the bonus to use it as a stand alone recording device.

 

[egan.]

RME released a tool that will automatically decode and recombine them but you still end up with unlabeled tracks. Ultimately it's a nice bonus feature but the UFX is definitely an interface first.