Let's Talk Studio Centrepieces

[Line666]

Here's an expensive hypothetical...

Suppose you had 8-10k (UK money) to spend on a studio centrepiece of some variety for a mid sized project studio - where/what would you invest the cash in? Assuming nearly all microphones/guitar amps/outboard/monitoring is already adequately covered apart from the most prestige pieces.

I've narrowed it down a few options thus far, feel free to suggest a few more.

Midas Venice F32 (2k)

Pros:-

32 Channels, reliable, built like a tank, supposedly ace pres and an EQ that's "so aggressive I caught it harassing my girlfriend", good for analogue bussing, firewire output, cheap as chips so could blow the rest of the budget on Neumanns and high class hookers.

Cons:-

No monitor control section and poorer studio routing as its primarily a live desk, so ugly only a mother could love it with all the nasty plastic bits on it (I've done it a service by finding the nicest photo I could get of it) - it does have a removable firewire section but I don't know if Midas plan on ever expanding that to something else - probably no.

Allen and Heath GS-R24M (5.5-6k) (top board obviously)

(

Pros - Amazing routing, motorised faders, midi transport, different expansion boards, looks classy as fuck and will impress clients, EQ and Pres are meant to be solid, board is modular so easier repairs if necessary.

Cons - Burns the majority of the budget - nothing left over for the hookers, could buy 3 Midas F32s for this and get 96 channels instead Same pres as the much cheaper R16 (smaller board in the above picture), less channels (although I'm not too sure I'll need more than 24 I guess it's always useful).

Toft ATB 24-32 w/ Outboard Conversion (SSL Alphalink/Antelope Orion) (7-???K)

Pros - Musical EQ, less all inclusive than the other setups - can switch a lot easier later with external A/D, solid pres, looks shit hot.

Cons - Truly the expensive as fuark option, the board is not modular so repairs are more difficult and its harder to service, significantly more wiring required.

Your option here

Pros: - Worth filling up on just expensive preamps/conversion then slamming it all through some sort of RME setup for reliability? Buy an old board then add converters?

Cons: - Someones for sure going to recommend I just buy a Profire or 003 rack Someones going to bag me for thinking client perception is important cos Joey recorded everything on a Pod XT or whatever and he got famous. Someones going to tell me to just buy more room treatment - it's covered guys seriously.

All that said, shoot!

 

[Studdy]

Unless the console is amazing I'd rather mix in the box. I know this isn't what you want to hear and you knew it was coming. I'd make sure my outboard preamps etc. we're awesome. I would spend some money on studio looks , functionality etc.

 

[EOC]

what kind of outboard do you have?

 

[Line666]

Unless the console is amazing I'd rather mix in the box. I know this isn't what you want to hear and you knew it was coming. I'd make sure my outboard preamps etc. we're awesome. I would spend some money on studio looks , functionality etc.

Yeah I did and I think unless you have something to stick there that isn't a computer and some rack units then you're going to have an uphill battle with attracting top quality clients most of the time unless your reputation is through the roof. As it stands I'm a thoroughly mid-level guy with some national radio play/minor success and enough clobber to get things moving but not enough to leave the choice wide open between this and the guy down the road that's got a large format console and some nicer outboard It's about remaining competitive on a business level as well as a technical one.

 

[Line666]

what kind of outboard do you have?

I'll just run the current gear list pre-spend (theres two of us thus the weird double ups in some areas);

Rack units: GAP Pre 73, DBX 160X, 2 x DBX 163X, Hairball 1176

Mics: 1x shure sm57 transformerless, 1 x shure sm57 regular, 2 x sm7b, beta 91a, sennheiser md421, md521, e904, e604, e602, 4 x i5, mxl a55, 2 x atm450, 2 x akg c391b, 2 x cad m179, studio projects b1, Audio Technica AT4040, shit tonnes of drum triggers.

Guitar Amps/Cabs: 2 x Kemper, JCA100, JCA50, 5153 mini, DSL100, JCA20, Micro Terror, Mesa Rectifier Cab, Marshall Mode 4 Cab, Harley Benton 2x12, mooer green mile overdrive, ibanez ts7, boss tu2, boss ns2, a selection of guitars.

Monitoring: Adam A7s, Yamaha HS50s, ATH-M50s x 2, Sennheiser Momentums and a whole bunch of cheaper cans.

Computing: i5 3570k Hackintosh, i7 Mac Mini, Pro Tools 11 HD.

The weaker areas of this are really the monitoring - the A7s are alright but nothing to write home about and I would maybe look at the possibility of bringing in a pair of Opals or Focal Twin using a section of that budget if it was spare. There's a lack of a prestige mics - although I have frequent free access to a variety of u87s, KM184s, C414s and others through my day job if needed. The outboard is mostly comps but that's why I think a centre piece would come in handy and we'd look at the possibility of bringing in a distressor and a few other bits and bobs eventually too.

 

[Max Morton]

I'd say, a badass pair of monitors, top notch mic pre and maybe ns-10's instead of hs50ies would be a great investment: more useful then a cheap console and still work for the studio's reputation (I'm in the same boat - can't afford myself an SSL desk yet). Maybe a great converter and a masterbus compressor?

 

[mva801]

First look at your desired workflow. How do you record? What do you usually record? If you track bands live with everyone going at once, a good console with lots of inputs is very useful. If all you ever use is 12 inputs at once for drums, then skip the board. Unless you need 24-30 inputs all at once, you're much better off going with a good rack of outboard pre's, and a decent summing mixer.

If you think you can improve your work with better monitoring, I'd probably start there.

Client perception IS important, but I would stick to things you KNOW are really going to help your workflow and still be impressive.
8-10K is really NOTHING to get going on the higher level of things. You could buy one u87 and a pair of monitors and kill the whole budget.

 

[crillemannen]

I would not spend money on a mid-priced desk. Go for 4-8 good preamps, good converters a distressor , 1176 and SSL comp and a nice eq if you want some HW integration.

And check out ns10's they are the best mixing monitors if you like the midforward sound!

 

[Line666]

First look at your desired workflow. How do you record? What do you usually record? If you track bands live with everyone going at once, a good console with lots of inputs is very useful. If all you ever use is 12 inputs at once for drums, then skip the board. Unless you need 24-30 inputs all at once, you're much better off going with a good rack of outboard pre's, and a decent summing mixer.

If you think you can improve your work with better monitoring, I'd probably start there.

Client perception IS important, but I would stick to things you KNOW are really going to help your workflow and still be impressive.
8-10K is really NOTHING to get going on the higher level of things. You could buy one u87 and a pair of monitors and kill the whole budget.

Be aware it's in pounds not dollars so it translates better - a u87 is about half the price (~1.8-2k compared to 3.5k) over here than it is in the US. I'm aware 8-10k is not a lot of money on higher level studio setup but a u87 and a set of monitors would at best only eat half the budget as it currently stands which goes to show how relative that is.

For the 8-10 over here I could get:-

The Midas
Antelope Orion for 32 channels of conversion
2-4 channels of decent 1073 Clone
Event Opals or Focal Twins

and probably still have enough left over for a few other bits and pieces.

About my workflow - I'd be happy micing the vocalist up with a potato - I've been absolutely slumming it for the past few years just learning more and still having things go well with no adequate tools to speak of so I'm less inclined to make this about me than about slowly making professional inroads into the higher end of the market now that all the cashflow and resources are available to do so. I would like to push myself out my comfort zone of ITB mixing and all its trappings and move towards more tactile elements but this is primarily a business move which may mean recording live arrangements as I don't work in Metal and it's a pretty heavily requested feature.

 

[DavePiatek]

I can only speak from experience on one of the pieces. I've worked with 2 Toft ATB consoles, one at the studio where I used to work, and one at the school where I teach. IMO, build quality is poor and the metering isn't up to snuff. The preamps aren't anything better than you'd find on a prosumer interface, either. Think about it. For what they're charging for that console, corners HAD to be cut.

As for my recommendation, I'd get a nice monitor controller and a summing box (if you NEED analog summing) and call it a day. Use any other money left overt buy a few channels of nice preamps. If you're after that real Trident sound, I'd start here instead of the Toft:

http://vintageking.com/trident-80b-mic-pre-eq

 

[rapucore]

If you want the console to be mostly eye-candy to catch more clients, why not hook up four Mackie Controls (the main + three extensions)? It would give you 48 faders and would look good to the client.

 

[RevoltStudios]

The gear nerds in us say just get good preamps....the client's eyes say BORRRRIINNNGGGG. That's why I bought a console that may not have worked and I got lucky and it did. I originally bought it just to look cool and a few small things. Clients want to see awe inspiring rooms. My room is being built in my new house, but even in the temporary space, people love it. SHoot man, look on ebay....you can buy a centerpiece console for nothing and roll the dice. I freakin LOVE mine and it's all working now with a Creation Audio modded master buss.

 

[Sloan]

The gear nerds in us say just get good preamps....the client's eyes say BORRRRIINNNGGGG. That's why I bought a console that may not have worked and I got lucky and it did. I originally bought it just to look cool and a few small things. Clients want to see awe inspiring rooms. My room is being built in my new house, but even in the temporary space, people love it. SHoot man, look on ebay....you can buy a centerpiece console for nothing and roll the dice. I freakin LOVE mine and it's all working now with a Creation Audio modded master buss.

I'm glad you pointed out the Client thing. I've been struggling with converting clients the past year or so and i'm sure a lot of it has to do with not having anything impressive to see online.

Have you noticed a for real impact on just having a console there?

 

[Manicompression]

Id go with the Allen and Heath, its meant for studio integration so you can tie in other pieces of outboard easily. The pres on the r16/this unit are nothing to sneeze at, surely not going to hold you back.

 

[RevoltStudios]

I'm glad you pointed out the Client thing. I've been struggling with converting clients the past year or so and i'm sure a lot of it has to do with not having anything impressive to see online.

Have you noticed a for real impact on just having a console there?

Oh yes, from last year this time, VR has tripled profits. Some of it can be attributed to many choices ect but hey, gotta look big to get interest! I get a lot of clients and other guys who are part of my company who use my console for summing ect. Did a song through it now up for a Canadian Grammy ect. IT pays off.

 

[Sloan]

Oh yes, from last year this time, VR has tripled profits. Some of it can be attributed to many choices ect but hey, gotta look big to get interest! I get a lot of clients and other guys who are part of my company who use my console for summing ect. Did a song through it now up for a Canadian Grammy ect. IT pays off.

Did it have any negative affect on your workflow or do you just use it for summing?

 

[RevoltStudios]

Did it have any negative affect on your workflow or do you just use it for summing?

It strongly varies based on the project. Sometimes I'll start with everything bussed to channels and mix from there using outboard, console eq, and a few plugins. Other times, I'll pretty much mix the song 80% of the way, then buss out to channels and finish with minor tweaks and fader mixing. I rarely do all ITB anymore if ever.

EDIT: In reference to the thread, used many Toft boards and hated all of them. Cheap and foggy. A&H is super sexy with routing and quality and feel, maybe a little bland but my first choice is the GSR24 past my console. The Midas is good but tiny faders and some iffy quality will leave you wanting more.

 

[B36arin]

I'd get a pair of Euphonix Artist Series controllers and spend the rest of the money on candy(ie really nice mics, pres and outboard).

 

[mva801]

Be aware it's in pounds not dollars so it translates better - a u87 is about half the price (~1.8-2k compared to 3.5k) over here than it is in the US. I'm aware 8-10k is not a lot of money on higher level studio setup but a u87 and a set of monitors would at best only eat half the budget as it currently stands which goes to show how relative that is.

For the 8-10 over here I could get:-

The Midas
Antelope Orion for 32 channels of conversion
2-4 channels of decent 1073 Clone
Event Opals or Focal Twins

and probably still have enough left over for a few other bits and pieces.

About my workflow - I'd be happy micing the vocalist up with a potato - I've been absolutely slumming it for the past few years just learning more and still having things go well with no adequate tools to speak of so I'm less inclined to make this about me than about slowly making professional inroads into the higher end of the market now that all the cashflow and resources are available to do so. I would like to push myself out my comfort zone of ITB mixing and all its trappings and move towards more tactile elements but this is primarily a business move which may mean recording live arrangements as I don't work in Metal and it's a pretty heavily requested feature.

Damn you exchange rate!! [shakes fist]

Sounds like you're already made up your mind with that tight little list. If you don't do much metal and could make use out of a higher input live tracking setup, what you just said sounds like a great way to go. I'm lucky and work in a big fancy studio with a 40 input API and Neumanns and all that crap. Being able to track a full band live with complete setups is really nice. As long as the band doesn't suck that is.....

 

[Capitancambarro]

I absolutely love my Audient 2802 small format Console (now Focusrite control 2802 or something). It just fits perfectly into the modern (hybrid) worklflow, sounds awesome and has a lot of very clever routing options, a superb monitor section and great ideas fitted into a small package. I came from a much larger analog console (Trident 65 with 32 Channels and 16 Busses) which I couldn't really incorporate in a meaningful way into my way of working. Loved the sound, look and vibe of the big console though. But I am happy these days too.