Limiter on Rhythm Guitar; Do's and Don'ts

[outbreak525]

I hear that a limiter on a rhythm guitar in your regular Hardcore/Metal production really beefs it up.

I am looking for the most information I can find on the effects of the limiter on your distorted rhythm tracks, what I should do, what I shouldn't do, and the physical effects it has on the audio itself.

Any information will be appreciated! Thanks guys!

 

[arv_foh]

Limiters are for dynamics control. Distorted electric guitars are not very dynamic. If you look at the waveform, it is steady almost all the way through. I don't think a limiter is going to accomplish the sound you are going for.

"Beefing up" your guitars is accomplished through a gigantic bass tone.

 

[RedDog]

Limiter on guitar?

Don't fucking do it.

 

[outbreak525]

I'm reacting specifically to this post.

 

[RedDog]

Consider broadband compression?

Broadband compression on distorted guitars is an interesting thing. They tend to naturally be so compressed because of their high distortion, but at the same time still have peaks which are caused by the exciting of resonances within the guitar, cab, room etc.

Broadband compressors on guitars mostly act on low-end spikes. That is to say, they will conversely make your guitars more fizzy and edgy. They will feel more upfront and controlled, but also gain a harsh, present character.

I'm personally still experimenting in this area to find a balance that works, but I would advise that unless you are very experienced in mixing, avoid broadband compression on high gain guitars, as it can cause more problems for you than it solves.

Small amounts of limiting can help in the avoidance of clipping at very high master RMS levels. The limiter will act very aggressively on errant micropeaks on the guitars, and allow you to get a little bit of extra headroom. This, once again, comes at the expense of punch, and an increase in presence.

Consider this, Joey uses amp sims and Ermz uses live amps. These are very different beasts and should be treated as such. Personally, I don't want a limiter on my guitars because it "Squeezes the life out of something that's already gone", and it's going to get crushed by another limiter on the 2-buss later on.

 

[DevonSteelman]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production/703316-guitar-limiting.html

 

[RedDog]

^ that thread won't teach you anything. Its troll city and of no real use.

 

[DevonSteelman]

^ that thread won't teach you anything. Its troll city and of no real use.

It's more helpful than saying:

Limiter on guitar?

Don't fucking do it.

 

[Ermz]

It depends on the sort of mix you're doing. If you want to maximize headroom, and squeeze the guitars through a fairly busy arrangement then an l1 can save your ass. If you're after a 'big' guitar sounds (ie. one where the peaks do jump and cloud everything else) then you may be best avoiding it. Limiters will take the transient punch away from palm mutes to a large degree, so you need to make sure you're capable of compensating for that with your bass mixing.

 

[Fandus]

I've also seen people clip their guitars, could potentially be a more transparent way of maximizing headroom?

 

[AboutBlank]

Imo, a Multiband Comp is the best option to archieve a solid sound with increase of headroom.
Not for deforming the sound but for controlling and avoiding build ups...

 

[Ermz]

I've also seen people clip their guitars, could potentially be a more transparent way of maximizing headroom?

Digitally clipping steady-state signals is generally not a good idea.

 

[smy1]

I like to parallel limit my guitars. It's like parallel compression but for some reason it sounds better with a limiter. To me it adds a "wild" and totally over-the-top characteristic if you really limit 10-15db of the signal and then add it back in underneath the original guitar.

 

[paladin shredder]

L1 last in the chain shaving off about -2db on the chunky riffs. Release around -10.0 to -100.0

This gives the drums more headroom for master bus compression, which helps them cut through the mix better.

TRY IT!

 

[ApeScaleConflict]

I've tried a limiter on guitars many times and i am open to all "DON'T DO THIS" -rules. I have not done limiters/compressors on distorted guitars even if it has sounded good by itself. I haven't been able to get the guitars to sit with the mix, they jump out in a bad dead way.

 

[tempe]

I usually have an L1 doing maybe 1dB at the absolute most. I like what it does to the presence and pick attacks, that being said I'm no god of guitar tone!

 

[Clark Kent]

Wow, reading some of the comments above made me facepalm for 10min before I could write this post.

You need to understand limiters and compressors in depth. The basic lecture will tell you that they reduce volume and increase overall volume. Now using them for this purpose only is a bit "NOOB" if you ask me. Ask any 3-name-professional engineer about compressors and limiters and they will tell you that they don't care how much volume limiters and compressors reduces or increases. They use limiters and compressors (hardware) to add character.

What the "right" limiter will do to guitar tracks is NOT mainly for limiting but the character it gives your guitar tracks. What the "right" limiter will do is make your guitar tracks more pleasing on louder volumes. It will take the fizzy stingy-bee-in-the-ear character of your guitar tracks and give your guitars a smooth organic character. At times this is a subtle change but there are times that limiters have rescued some very harsh guitar tracks.

After that it's all about what is the "right" limiter for this? You can try different limiters but the hardware LA-3A is the industry standard for this. Both UAD and Waves have made software versions of this. I use the Waves CLA-3A for this purpose.

 

[greyskull]

On more punk/ hardcore stuff, i use an la3a, but on metal stuff.. nah.

 

[Clark Kent]

Also on these limiters that add color, you don't really have to limit the tone for the character.

And in the end... just use your ears. Trust them! You will go a lot further trusting inexperienced ears than using presets that don't fit the situation. You will develop better ears for these things in time and that's the whole point. The real problem is when you've done a mix that's awesome and you can't make a new mix that's as good.

 

[Ermz]

Dunno about the CLA-3A plug-in. Used it a few times on guitar, but I think you lose the effect with a plug-in. Half the idea behind 'smoothing' out distorted guitars would be to do it with a hardware piece. I found the plug-in just made them pump weirdly, and altered their envelope in a way that wasn't mix-conducive. Works good on cleans, acoustics etc. but not so much on high-gain.