Live DVD

[Jordon]

Hey all. I did some searching around but didn't find a whole lot on this forum about this. I'm currently mixing a 6-song live promo DVD for my band. Everything sounds pretty good, to be honest. The guitars were mic'd pretty nicely, and I grabbed DI's just in case. The bass had to be re-amped, because I only had a DI to work with, and it needed to be filled out. Vocals are fine, I'm not going to tune anything, unless it's embarrassingly off, which happens so little, I might just not screw with it. My only issue is this:

The kick and toms sound terrible. I'm not worried about editing for time, as it's a live dvd, and I'm ok with some screwups here and there, but the tones are atrocious. I know they sounded great in the venue, but they didn't translate to the digital medium very well. How terrible would it be to replace them, or maybe just stack them? I don't want to go about this the "wrong" way, but this is my first time mixing concert live material, and I just do not know how to approach it.

Also, when it comes to backing tracks, the feed from the board was mono, since we see little need to run stereo bt's live. Should I just use the mono feed from the show, or lay in our actual stereo tracks? Mono sounds fine live, but on tape, especially through headphones, there can be some odd phasing artifacts.

And one more thing (I know this is a lot, I'm sorry!), should I throw verb on a buss for the whole mix and bring it up a touch so it doesn't sound so flat and dry?

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

This is just my personal opinion and people might disagree with it, but I'd say go for it except for the mix bus reverb. You can experiment with it, but be very, very careful. It can easily mush things up too much and make it sound unnatural.

I for one watch live DVD's to see how the band performs and enjoy the show, not to judge how the venue's FOH guy dialed in the kick for the night. And for the backing tracks, just use the stereo one. You made it in stereo and that's how it should sound like.

 

[Jordon]

Cool. That's similar to my thought process. The only reason I'd want some mix buss verb is so that it doesn't sound super sterile. We didn't have any crowd/room mics going that night, so I'm just worried it might sound lifeless.

 

[xFkx]

Man, i remember having bought bleeding through's first dvd, and they decided to keep it "real", which means it sounded like absolute shit, man.. I was really dissapointed.

I see no issue with replacing the drums honestly.

 

[Jordon]

I've been fighting with this for several days, just sitting on this project trying to work it out myself. Re-amping the bass was a no-brainer. Most venues mic bass cabs with 57's or 52's around here anyway...or they straight DI the bass.

 

[-Noodles-]

Flame suit on..

you're making a product that you expect people to sell. so if you can fix something to improve the product, that's something you should consider doing.
if that means triggering or stacking the toms, do it.
if that means adding in fake reverbs, do it.

if it's not a good product, don't expect people to part money for it.


*no-one has mentioned the "oh you can't sample replace" argument yet, but considering you're willing to "re-amp" the guitars.. I guess you won't be too bothered about doing so?

 

[Jordon]

Flame suit on..

you're making a product that you expect people to sell. so if you can fix something to improve the product, that's something you should consider doing.
if that means triggering or stacking the toms, do it.
if that means adding in fake reverbs, do it.

if it's not a good product, don't expect people to part money for it.


*no-one has mentioned the "oh you can't sample replace" argument yet, but considering you're willing to "re-amp" the guitars.. I guess you won't be too bothered about doing so?

I'd have re-amped the guitars if needed through our live rigs. Done all the switching on the fly and whatnot. The tones at the venue were pretty good, though. They have a definite "live" feel, without sounding like garbage.

We're not really going to be selling this, it's just a promotional tool for label/management/booking/sponsorships, so I still obviously want this to sound as good as possible.

 

[-Noodles-]

We're not really going to be selling this, it's just a promotional tool for label/management/booking/sponsorships

You re-amped the bass, and the bass is a guitar? ;-)*
I know what you mean.. but if you've considered doing re-amping, then you're aware that the product has to be the best it can.

If it's a promotional tool then all the more reason why you should make it the best thing ever.

*I do realize that in your original post, you state that you'll be keeping the guitar mics and only re-amping the bass. I didn't actually mean that you were going to do the guitars too, but more that you could do it if you wanted or had to

 

[Jordon]

You re-amped the bass, and the bass is a guitar? ;-)*
I know what you mean.. but if you've considered doing re-amping, then you're aware that the product has to be the best it can.

If it's a promotional tool then all the more reason why you should make it the best thing ever.

*I do realize that in your original post, you state that you'll be keeping the guitar mics and only re-amping the bass. I didn't actually mean that you were going to do the guitars too, but more that you could do it if you wanted or had to

I got ya, sir. Listening to the first song in the set again, I'm thinking I might have to fix some timing issues in the kick in a couple places, our drummer missed some hits :/ Oh well, like you said, as a promotional tool, all the most reason to make it the best possible. I have some ideas for doubling the rhythm guitars through our live rigs again dialed in slightly different to thicken things up, but we'll see how that goes. I'm honestly pretty surprised that the guitars came out as well as they did.

 

[-Noodles-]

try some parallel compression on the guitars..

Bus guitars to bus 1/2
compressor on 1/2; 12dB + reduction, then pull up the fader till the guitars start to sound fatter.

Works for me with live mixes!

 

[dcb]

can we ever recreate the feel of a certain event ? nahhh. we cant. i watched live videos of my band, only recorded with a cell phone - and was blown away by the groove we had,
by the hugeness. then i watched the same gig on video - audio was recorded straight out of the foh mixer. you know how that sounds - vocalss alll the way up , no instruments.
the complete opposite of what the audience heard. its always like that.

so by taking a live recording and sculpting it the way you FELT the music, i dont think there is anything wrong with that.
i would leave performances as they are. - but working with the sounds to recreate the feel of the night is what i would go for personally.

id say go for sample replacement if drums sound ass. if you (again) get the feel across - goo for it ! ;-)

btw. can you post some clips? i love "produced" live material.

 

[Jordon]

try some parallel compression on the guitars..

Bus guitars to bus 1/2
compressor on 1/2; 12dB + reduction, then pull up the fader till the guitars start to sound fatter.

Works for me with live mixes!

Thanks for the tip, never would have thought to try that!

 

[acappa]

This is the last thing I mixed live:

It´s 18 tracks from the FOH, kick and snare mixed with samples, toms 100% samples. My main advice in mixing live stuff is: clean the fuck out! Clean toms tracks, vocals tracks, guitar/bass track when not playing....
In this case I had 4 mikes for guitars (2x57&2x421) lead vocals and backing, 3 tracks for percussion and so on...
I found that the more I clean, the more professional I get, the only thing I never gate is OH, they retain the live character.
Then I take the ambience track from the camera, and mix it with the rest, automating when needed, be cafreful with phase issues. Other than that just ask, I´m kinda used to mix live stuff

 

[Jordon]

That sounds excellent, man. I approached things how you suggested the other night. Kick and toms were replaced, and the snare was stacked and things were cleaned up. I'll post a clip or two this weekend. The only thing that was killing the vibe for me was when a song came in, it started to feel....too studio-like? I thought it was just my mix/editing, but listening to your video, and other live DVD's, it seems like I'm worrying a bit too much about that. Adding a mix verb buss to things seemed to make them pop a bit more. I was cutting out the camera tracks when the songs came in to avoid phasing/timing/vocal tuning issues of off notes, but I may just mix them back in very lightly.

Any suggestions when it comes to this?