Lower tuning dissapoints

Uncle Junior

Uncle Junior

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Jun 24, 2009
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ok another science project i did at home was changing tuning. Were talking about guitar tuning. I tried all kinds of tuning on one song I made a while ago in E standard.


...later on I started to adore lower tuned guitar sounds, like korn, bodom, bizkit, down, pantera etc.

and evetually I tried to make my song work in lower tuning but unfortunately, I have a lot of techical stuff and harmonies trough almost every part of the song the rhytm guitars play in harmony.

As I said I tried many tunings, changed strings, tried out gauges... and I couldn't make my melodies, harmonies sound sharp and clear as they were in E. So overally the song sucked in:

1. D# stand. - harmonies sounded like they were out of tune

2. D stand. - the low end got bigger, but the harmonies and melodies are dirty and unclear.


3. C#, C stand. -damn heavy gauge here, rhytm is sound KORNish not tight metal sound, dirt.

Tried some drop D C C# D#, no luck though.


BUT GUUUUUUUUUYS, I loved that Marcus, Dandelium stuff on low tunings, the POWER and strenght the have. So I got sceptical about E standard. I wonder I the high range E standard provides messess up these AMPsims i use and makes the sound fuzzy in a bad -non studio way.

I play ESP LTD KH-603, which is 24.75 neck and YEAH I used some 13 - 60 shit on C. but still...




what are your philosophies here?
 
If stuff is outta tune in D# standard, I think that's intonation and tuning problems coming into play
 
+1, adjusting the intonation is always needed when you tune lower, otherwise the high notes will sound out of tune with the rhythms - ESPECIALLY on a shorter scale guitar like yours (24.75"). Here's a guide:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
(most) guitars are made to be tuned to E standard. what you discovered is no surprise or abnormality... the lower you tune, the worse it's going to sound, both in terms of tone and tuning. I think guitars sound way tighter and heavier in drop D than in drop C.
 
jval said:
(most) guitars are made to be tuned to E standard. what you discovered is no surprise or abnormality... the lower you tune, the worse it's going to sound, both in terms of tone and tuning. I think guitars sound way tighter and heavier in drop D than in drop C.
Click to expand...

I'd tend to agree.

over the years i must have tried every tuning imaginable from F (tuned up a half-step) to drop A. what i've found is that even when taking intonation and proper set-up into account, the closer to E Standard you are tuned, the better the instrument sounds.

I've eventually come back to D Standard and now accept it as my "home" tuning. its just a bit lower than standard and strikes the perfect balance between having a sense of "lowness" and also being articulate.

The huge mistake that many people make is that they think of Low tunings as an express ticket to better tone and greater heavyness and are then disappointed when they find that the tone isn't as good.
 
every note has a certain "flavour", every key sounds in fact different. people with perfect pitch will tell you that an f sounds different than an e.

but as i guess most guys here (including myself) do not have perfect pitch, i think your pretty much talking about tuning a guitar down without compensating -> thicker gauges, longer scales, reintonating guitars etc.

also keep in mind that most people identify high notes with "power" - not low notes. a high note at the will be perceived louder than a low note at the same level.
 
All I have ever done is use thicker strings and make sure the intonation is correct. Never had issues with C# standard, which has been my main tuning for years and years. Even on 24.75" guitars, although those are a little more difficult to get setup for the tuning, then tension just isn't there like on longer scales. You need at least 25.5" IMO to even begin to avoid lower tuning headaches with intonation and tension.
 
When I was tuning my Jackson to C standard I couldn't get the intonation right on to C string. I had to adjust the bridge to the point where I couldn't get the string back out through the hole and it still wouldn't be right. (String through body, Strat style bridge.)
 
I have been playing in D standard for about 2 years now. I find that you really need to do your math when doing these kinds of changes. Not only do you need a properly set-up guitar (which if you are a serious guitarist should be set up every 4 months anyways but no-ones perfect :) ) But you also need to find out what kind of tension you are putting on the neck. So if you play 10's in E lets say that your high E has a tension of like 15 lbs pulling on it (not exact but you get the point), however when you drop your tuning to D it will be something like 13.7 or something of the sort. So the best thing that you can do is look up "guitar string tension calculator" on google. I ended up playing/building a gauge of strings that does two things:
1. Piss off the guys at my local guitar store and
2. It makes my tension as close as it can be to playing 9's in E standard tuning.
So to sum it all up, IF YOU CHANGE YOUR TUNING DO NOT USE PRE-PACKAGED STRINGS as these will be designed for E no matter what the package says about the gauge being built for lower tunings. Anyways hope that helped!
 
Most sevens are 25.5, so in terms of lower tunnings, they are the same to me. They may be properly intonated out the factory for B standard .A six string or seven string baritone is the way to go i think.
 
25.5 scale is much better

Higher still if you get on with it

Also, what amp? Some work much better for detuning than others. Many will mud out. Depends what youre playing though, too. Amp, cab and speakers are all as important as the guitar for keeping a detuned sound clear and defined.

All the guys that mentioned intonation and sting gauges are right. Its a tough balance in gauge in particular. You need a thicker string to compensate for the lower tension, but the ticker string doesnt carry high overtones as well, so its duller. You want a tighter low end, so you go thicker still, but its then even duller and more lifeless, you get a lighter string and its got such a wide swing and so much low frequency energy in its vibration that its mud again. Fighting off the mud is the thing. You can try brighter or tighter pickups, longer scales so you can use thinner strings, or compromise at some point you like on string gauge, use better cables, sharp picks, stainless steel frets - there are loads of things you can do.

Looking back over all the stuff that I've done to get a good detuned sound, its actually a lot of work and experimentation, and it hasnt really ended yet. If youre sure that detuned metal sounds exist that you like and you want them, or something like them, for yourself, then experiment with all the relavent variables until you find what works for you.

A good place to start - get some bare knuckle painkillers :)
 
It seems that when we change the guitar tuning/string gauge, the overall tone changes slightly (That we hear from the speaker)
So when ya dial-in the usual "standard tuning" tone, it doesn't sound the same.
Start from scratch with the tone/gain/amp settings, maybe try different pickup distance, without tubescreamer etc
Also play tighter & concentrate on the source ;)
Just some suggestions
 
Agile makes a nice 6 string baritone w/ a 27" scale. Might want to try something like that.

You might also want to experiment w/ different string gauges as well, extra heavy, extra light etc,.

I personally like A standard for my tuning. Gives a nice thick sludgy sound. Probably not what the OP is looking for, but it's sounds really good for slow doom/chugging palm mute stuff.
 
Pxz said:
Most sevens are 25.5, so in terms of lower tunnings, they are the same to me. They may be properly intonated out the factory for B standard .A six string or seven string baritone is the way to go i think.
Click to expand...

arent 7 string EMGs geared for lower tuning stuff?
so intead of a regular EMG thats trying to read something really low tuned its all ready to go with no real tweaking from the source?
 
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