Managing tone changes due to Reamping

[H-evolve]

Hi all,

I've been trying Reamping lately (first time I ever do that). I had a very hard time matching the signal levels, mainly due to the fact that I use a Radial Reamper. Seems it's a known fact on this forum that they have a shitty gain staging or something.. Thanks to everyone who helped me with that problem btw.

I have now figured out a way to match the levels and this is not really an issue anymore. I've made multiple tests, and the best solution so far is to use the HardWare Output setting in Reaper and crank it up to +9dB (yeah, that is really what I need to match the levels.....). I've also tried a clean boost pedal, wasn't really better. As for my OD (TS9), I already have the level at 2o'clock for my regular tone, so I don't have a lot more dBs to go with.

So, now that the level problem is somewhat fixed, I now deal with the fact that my interface converters are not crazy good because my tone isn't the same. I am missing some highs, while the lows are a bit too much (when I compare to my actual guitar sound). To me it's logical that it comes from the converters, my interface is not a super expensive one. Unless somebody has another more logic explanation?

So far I've been correcting this with just some shelves EQ in my DAW, on the Reamped tracks. High freq shelf of roughly +1dB and a low freq shelf of also, -1dB. Seems to work, but was curious to see what other more experimented guys would recommend.

Gear : LTD ZH-7 with D-Activator pick-ups, Radial Pro-DI, Komplete Audio 6 Interface, Radial ProRMP, ENGL Invader 100, ENGL XXL Cab, SM57 mic, Reaper and JBL LSR305 monitors.

Thanks

 

[Machinated]

DI boxes/interfaces etc have a different impedance to what a guitar amp has - these will cause the guitar to react differently to how they would sound going straight in. Converters and preamps etc will influence too but the effect of the DI can be pretty noticeable.
I don't believe any one DI is perfect, really its about finding the right match for the sound you are going for and to design that into the tone. Cheap ones will suck hi end information out the guitar, and sound more flat.

All I'd recommend is do whatever it takes to get the sound you are looking for. It's probably going to be different on every scenario so just judge as you go. I've been trying to move more and more away from tracking DI's first and reamping at the end for several reasons; first and foremost its best to layer the arrangement in a way where the sounds compliment each other as early as possible. MUCH more advisable to work like that rather than trying to piece the whole lot together at the end.

 

[H-evolve]

...
All I'd recommend is do whatever it takes to get the sound you are looking for. It's probably going to be different on every scenario so just judge as you go. I've been trying to move more and more away from tracking DI's first and reamping at the end for several reasons; first and foremost its best to layer the arrangement in a way where the sounds compliment each other as early as possible. MUCH more advisable to work like that rather than trying to piece the whole lot together at the end.

Just to make sure I understand you, when you say "move more and more away from tracking DI's first and reamping at the end.." are you saying "I'm trying to avoid reamping all together"?

Or you're more saying that you will track the DI whenever you are ready to Reamp, so that you record whatever tone that you need at that particular moment?

Thanks

 

[Machinated]

Well I've recently moved to a kemper so my workflow would be to capture the tone I want to use and then track with the kemper and stick with that the whole way.

I record a DI too for editing (and in case I do need to reamp), but essentially I want to commit to the sound as early as possible and design the entire production around the intended guitar tone. Tracking with a plugin as a placeholder means the guitar tone is up in the air until the mix. Similarly I feel like the main core of the drum sounds (+samples of any are to be used) are better being chosen earlier and supplemented later only if needed.

Sounds are all relative to each other and need to be picked based on what they're up against. Trying to unravel it all at the end is pretty difficult to turn into something great.

FWIW I don't use the DI input on the kemper as it doesn't sound too great.

 

[H-evolve]

Well I've recently moved to a kemper so my workflow would be to capture the tone I want to use and then track with the kemper and stick with that the whole way...

I record a DI too for editing (and in case I do need to reamp), but essentially I want to commit to the sound as early as possible and design the entire production around the intended guitar...

Thanks for the clarification, I think what you do makes a lot of sense when you are experienced and equipped. I am still a noob when it comes to recording and also I don't have a lot of equipment.

I have an amp and cab which I like, however there is a lot of things that I can do wrong, like mic placement. My feeling is that I need Reamping, even in my learning process.

It's just that I just found that my recording gear, which is very simplistic and not so expensive, might affect my tone. I have a good feeling that somewhere in my Reamping chain, something goes wrong. Is it my Interface converters, my Radial Pro DI that is too cheap, or my ProRMP...? Hard to tell, probably a bit of everything. But at the moment, one thing is for sure, I am not satisfied with my Reamped tone. I like, however, for the same mic position, the tone that is recorded when I am directly plugged in the amp.

On the other end I am sure some guys here have similar gear and manage some good tones.

If I'd have 6 different Reampers and 6 DIs and an expensive interface I'd probably be able to experiment until satisfied. However at the moment this is not the case, so I need to figure out how to make it work with what I have...

Or win the lottery.

 

[Machinated]

I understand your situation completely and have worked a ton of different ways over the years.

Don't worry too much about your gear (just make the most of what you have), but do concentrate on making it sound good before you record it. It's so easy to record anything but why capture something if it's not right? Even if you're taking DI's and reamping after, make sure your tracking tone sounds great. If it sounds awesome with a plugin, then you can almost guarantee it'll sound even better going through an amp.

You'll hear so many big names talk about the importance of committing early and it really is so important.

 

[H-evolve]

I understand your situation completely and have worked a ton of different ways over the years.

Don't worry too much about your gear (just make the most of what you have), but do concentrate on making it sound good before you record it. It's so easy to record anything but why capture something if it's not right? Even if you're taking DI's and reamping after, make sure your tracking tone sounds great. If it sounds awesome with a plugin, then you can almost guarantee it'll sound even better going through an amp.

You'll hear so many big names talk about the importance of committing early and it really is so important.

Thanks again for your reply.

And just to conclude, I assume that this committment you recommend is basically so you don't end up fine tuning eternally and always going back touching things forever?

 

[Machinated]

Thanks again for your reply.

And just to conclude, I assume that this committment you recommend is basically so you don't end up fine tuning eternally and always going back touching things forever?

It's essentially down to how sounds relate to each other - if they're all up in the air until the last minute, it'll be hard to make them sit together cohesively as the way they're perceived relates to how each other sound. It can also be incredibly overwhelming to try and mix something that hasn't had any commitment in the production (such as people posting MIDI files and DI's and completely dry vocals). More and more these things are getting lumped in at the mixing phase for the mixer to make sense of when really they are production choices and should be decided early on. Having a backup plan is fine but its FAR better to decide exactly what you want as early as possible and to build further choices on those. Production and engineering is ALL about making these decisions, at some point someone is going to have to do it.

Some of the best mixing engineers on the planet will reduce their track counts down to something like 24/32/44 tracks so its something their brain can manage - do we really need individual blends of mic's, and completely control over every backing vocal for the entirety of a mix? At some point or another, I'll decide the blend of top vs bottom mic and print that to one track, same with kick mics, if there are multiple guitar mics etc. Likewise with harmonies and how they should relate to each other. At some point the decision has to be made what their purpose is and how they should sound. The earlier it is dealt with, the less there is to think about and the less chance there is for something to go wrong.

Bear in mind how experienced mixers like Tom Elmhirst, CLA and essentially anyone working in analog are - I'm certainly nowhere near their ability so why would I try and complicate my work more than what they'd do?

With modern technology, track counts aren't limited so people are free to add as many as they want - the ultimate goal is to reduce all this information down to a stereo file, so really you want to give yourself the easiest route to that.