Martin Vs. Johan

[chaveta]

listening to orchid and morningrise lately... man i think Johan totally slays martin mendez on bass.

please correct me if i'm wrong but he was the bassist for those 2 right?
i just dont see any cool bass work on the latest releases...
any thoughts?

 

[Beth]

I don't think Johan was even a real member--he was only a session player for Orchid and Morningrise..... I know what you're saying but I don't want to totally agree, I just can't diss Mendez...but, yeah.....that part on In Mist She Was Standing....around 6 min. or so (sorry I can't tell you the technical name--I know practically nothing about music)......I mean it's not awe-inspiring, but it just reminds me of how much Johan stood out...

 

[phon1c]

Martin has some great bass lines also. Of course, that bass line in Drapery Falls comes to mind above anything.. but overall I do prefer his work to that of Johan's.

 

[Demonspell]

Johan's work on Morningrise is awesome, but Martin, while not as upfront, can be every bit as effective, and he delivers some great performances on Damnation...

 

[metalathiest]

I think Johan makes more interesting bass lines than Martin. Take for example "In The Mist She Was Standing", "Advent", "Nectar" and my fav for the bass, "To Bid You Farewell", they are way more fun to listen to. And im also a beginner bass player, so when I get the confidence to play some Opeth heh, Id definitly choose something from an older period.

I agree "The Drapery Falls" is good and I think Martin does a good job for Opeth!. I have heard from people that his bass playing on Damnation is very good, but I have yet to hear Damnation. Coming in the mail soon I hope hehe. If anyone has an opinion about the his playing Damnation, please tell me it?!

 

[Biddinger]

Maybe if Mendez was turned up in the mix! Since they kicked Johan out, the bass has been pretty inaudible. And I thought I read somewhere that Mike wrote all the bass lines for Johan...

 

[Katatonic]

you have to take into account though that the music of the band is totally different between morningrise and still life (mendez's first album)

 

[Sfarog]

1. Johan happens to be playing on the cd's that i prefer stylistically, but i also heard that Mike wrote the lines.
2. Johan's personality was "difficult" where as Martin is practically an angel (i know this from his old friend from Requiem Aeternam days)
3. Overall Opeth of now are a lot more cohesive unit ... and the change in music is not really due to change in members.. its more about Mike's own personal change as a musician. That also deals with the bass sound.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Personaly I like Johan's style a lot, but Mikeal didn't like it cuz he did too much soloing type stuff which is what I liked about him. Martin is real good though, especialy love the acoustic bass line on "Black Water Park" (the song)

 

[squeegee your third eye]

While the bass is too low in the mix on Still Life, I hear some excellent bass work on BP and Deliverence. Sometimes I miss the prominent melodic bass lines from first albums, but that's more a stylistic change than a matter of Martin being inferior.

I think the two Martin's overall form a better rhythm section, more cohesive, fluid, tighter, everything, and Martin's bass playing really locks in and complements the song.

 

[Ermz]

Johan definately had a more distinct style, and it was more up-front and at times obtrusive. While it could be done on the first 2 albums, I really don't see his style working on MAYH or beyond.

Mendez on the other hand writes the lines to fit the song more specifically, he doesn't seem to go out of his way to make some 'bass-solo'... a good example of a great bass line is of course The Drapery Falls... its not obtrusive whatsoever, it doesn't follow the guitar and it manages to add the whole crescendo airy feeling.

Also on Damnation... yess, the bass work is the best I've heard from Opeth so far... I'm not sure who wrote the lines but they sound great and totally complement the music as a whole. At times it even feels the bass is playing lead over the guitars, which is great.

 

[Static]

I like Johan's work the best but also greatly appreciate Mendez. His work on The Drapery Falls, Harvest, White Cluster, Face of Melinda, and all of Damnation...all of it is brilliant!

 

[godmachine12]

Johan's bass lines were more "showy" you could say, but Martin can hold his own. He is good as well, but like someone else said, the music is definitely different now and that reflects on how the bass as well as the rest of the instruments sound. Martin can play that old stuff live just fine as well.

 

[chaveta]

well, of course, i never meant to say that Martin wasn't any good, but the bass in those two albums is super tight and i'd wish they'd go back to it.. it sucks for me cuz now its a little disappointing... but good nonetheless

 

[Sfarog]

well, of course, i never meant to say that Martin wasn't any good, but the bass in those two albums is super tight...

i dare disagree... stylistically it was great, but it was nowwhere near "tight" its actually quite sloppy.

sf.

 

[Heliologue]

apples and oranges.

johan's sound was a thinner timbre, more suitable to solo playing. reminiscent of a sweden prog bassline (read: anglagard). lot of opeth's older works were more fugue-like, in that all three stringed instruments were playing different but similar lines.

mendez' sound blends much more.... which is precisely why mike got him. later opeth albums see music more cohesively, both in terms of instrumentation and songwriting. that doesn't mean that mendez's lixx ( ) aren't as good as johan's.... just that they're meant to be so within a unified context.

 

[Blackout]

Well, I will probably seem sacrilegious to most of you but...
I actually prefer Martin's work over Johan's.

Let me explain. I'm a bassist myself, and of course the bass is one of the first thing I notice in any band. I must say that both are very capable and talented bassists... However, to me, Johan's style, athough very good, seems almost too much or "forced" at times. Don't get me wrong, I really love some of Johan's work, especially on "To Bid you Farewell" in which the bassline is fantastic (Whatever Mikael wrote that particular line or not ).

However, overall, I prefer Martin's style. He may not be flashy or soloing much, but he has a very solid playing going on, and his lines are inventive and fun ("The Drapery Falls, Harvest, and Black Water Park come to mind.) So he may not be very flashy and up front, but his lines and tone are a great addition to Opeth's sound, IMO.

And let's not forget Mikael either, whose lines on MAYH were very good (even if he said he wasn't a good bassist) ! Listen to "Epilogue" if you don't believe me !

 

[Static]

Yeah, Mikael was actually pretty awesome on the bass. I mean, listen to Credence, the bass on that rocks!

 

[bleed for me]

well if you listen to an album, and you DON'T think to yourself "damn the bass is too loud" or "you can't hear the bass at all" than that's 3/4 of the bass's job done. The purpose of the bass is to add base and a backbone to the music. Obviously a lot of the time, a song can be greatly enhanced by a prominent bass line like 'the drapery falls' but usually a song can sound good without the bass right up in your face.

 

[Protected Witness]

apples and oranges.

johan's sound was a thinner timbre, more suitable to solo playing. reminiscent of a sweden prog bassline (read: anglagard). lot of opeth's older works were more fugue-like, in that all three stringed instruments were playing different but similar lines.

mendez' sound blends much more.... which is precisely why mike got him. later opeth albums see music more cohesively, both in terms of instrumentation and songwriting. that doesn't mean that mendez's lixx ( ) aren't as good as johan's.... just that they're meant to be so within a unified context.

What they said.