matt barlow unretires again from iced earth

Yes I do. A band that came off a platinum record would more than likely try to go platinum again due to higher standards from the label, etc. When a band goes platinum, it also allows for the label to push the band harder in the hopes that it can continue that success. I mean really now, c'mon.

Eh, I don't know that I agree with that, but I will accept the logic of how you are arriving at that conclusion.

This has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I don't care about other bands, I'm talking about Queensryche.

Again, this is completely separate from what I am talking about. I never said you couldn't enjoy post-Empire Queensryche, but what I am saying is that there is quite alot of criticism against the band for changing their sound to seemingly gain large commercial success. Nor was I saying that fan-criticism against Queensryche is exclusive to post-Empire output or even to Queensryche alone.

Tenth Dreamer Deciever said the only reason why people complain about Queensryche's post-Empire era is because those CDs weren't progressive enough. I disagreed that critics disliked that era of the band because they feel it's selloutish and doesn't work compared to the band's earlier output. This is true, because you can find a large library of complaints against the band for that reason all over the internet whether you like it or not. The fact that this forum seems to share that same opinion is also testimony to my hypothesis. Deal with it and drop the butthurt man. I never said you couldn't like the band or whatever. It's music and we can listen to whatever we want. :D

So, what about Promised Land do you think lends itself to the "we are trying to go platinum again" argument? There is not much on that disc that would attract main stream radio listeners, in my opinion. I feel like if they wanted to sell out they would have made discs just like Empire for the next 15 years to try to duplicate that success. But instead, they continued to change up their sound just like they did with their earlier discs. To me, that is the opposite of selling out.

And definitely no butthurt on my part. I understand why people don't like their recent CD's, but the hate directed towards the band and their fans is a little unwarranted.


I said I don't care about bands selling out, not the topic at large. And it's true, hence my Arcade Fire example. I do think the topic at large is worth posting about, hence my posting about it.

Fair enough.
 
I'm getting you can't really cope when humor is directed back at you. So, carry on with the insults as I'm sure it helps with your self esteem issues. :grin:

lol "tactics." Like posting on the internet is Final Fantasy or something.

Anyways, that joke doesn't really make sense on your part because nobody thinks Asia is cool (hence the "you know why you're gay? Because you listen to Asia" reference from The 40 Year Old Virgin that I use to jokingly make fun of you), but alot of people are into djent. So I mean, you just come off as weird and not funny in the end.
 
And, no. Not even close. (Except the part about Evergrey. That part is probably true.)

Something else about this that made me laugh.

Queensryche did become an arena band (if you remember this little tour with a band called Metallica, on the Justice tour), and are now relegated to being a cabaret band. Nothing about that is false. As for the truths or falsities of not being able to fill the seats without doing said cabaret "act" or doing Mindcrime over and over again, I suppose that could be up for debate. Considering that most, if not everyone I know who is into Queensryche, who saw them on the AS tour, said that they wouldn't see them again and that they should hang it up. Geoff smokes and drinks too much to have a healthy voice for his type of singing anymore, and their songwriting now is terrible, at best. Geoff and Co. either have to A.) Tour for an album that came out over 20 years ago, again and again (granted, it IS a pretty cool show the first time you see it), OR, B.) Geoff has to get on stage in a speedo while his wife and daughter act like glorified strippers. A works for them because let's face it, Mindcrime kicked ass (and I can tolerate pt. 2, even if it wasn't that great), and B works for them because it's like watching a Charley Sheen interview, it's terrible to watch, but don't want to look away because you might miss something that you will regret having seen (like Corsair's avatar). Either way, they are a bunch of has-beens that have to ride on previous success and achievements because they can't even come close to mimicking their glory days. I think Zod said it best, "Queensryche are the most consistent band in metal. They are either consistently good (the early stuff) or consistently bad (the later stuff)" (I'm paraphrasing, of course). No matter where you choose to draw that line and split their discography, there is a lot of truth in those words.
 
Something else about this that made me laugh.

Queensryche did become an arena band (if you remember this little tour with a band called Metallica, on the Justice tour), and are now relegated to being a cabaret band. Nothing about that is false. As for the truths or falsities of not being able to fill the seats without doing said cabaret "act" or doing Mindcrime over and over again, I suppose that could be up for debate. Considering that most, if not everyone I know who is into Queensryche, who saw them on the AS tour, said that they wouldn't see them again and that they should hang it up. Geoff smokes and drinks too much to have a healthy voice for his type of singing anymore, and their songwriting now is terrible, at best. Geoff and Co. either have to A.) Tour for an album that came out over 20 years ago, again and again (granted, it IS a pretty cool show the first time you see it), OR, B.) Geoff has to get on stage in a speedo while his wife and daughter act like glorified strippers. A works for them because let's face it, Mindcrime kicked ass (and I can tolerate pt. 2, even if it wasn't that great), and B works for them because it's like watching a Charley Sheen interview, it's terrible to watch, but don't want to look away because you might miss something that you will regret having seen (like Corsair's avatar). Either way, they are a bunch of has-beens that have to ride on previous success and achievements because they can't even come close to mimicking their glory days. I think Zod said it best, "Queensryche are the most consistent band in metal. They are either consistently good (the early stuff) or consistently bad (the later stuff)" (I'm paraphrasing, of course). No matter where you choose to draw that line and split their discography, there is a lot of truth in those words.

I guess any band can and will have those fans that stick with them threw anything and think that everything that put out is quality stuff. I am sure the band appreciates it and it must be nice to some extent to be so locked into something like that. However, I can not for the life of me see how anyone can say the QR is still putting out quality music. And trust me, I am not a come late to the party guy on QR. I was a teen when the EP came out and was hooked from the first note I heard. During the first 4 albums, they were at the top of my favorite bands list. I still say to this day that watching them play Mindcrime in its entirety on the Empire tour was prob the best show I have ever seem. I have seen them twice since and it paled in comparison. Q2K and beyond is just not good material IMO. They have become a joke with this cabaret crap and it saddens me to say that.

Having said that, QR was one hell of a band and will always be remembered by me for the band they were and not for the band they have become.
 
I guess any band can and will have those fans that stick with them threw anything and think that everything that put out is quality stuff. I am sure the band appreciates it and it must be nice to some extent to be so locked into something like that. However, I can not for the life of me see how anyone can say the QR is still putting out quality music. And trust me, I am not a come late to the party guy on QR. I was a teen when the EP came out and was hooked from the first note I heard. During the first 4 albums, they were at the top of my favorite bands list. I still say to this day that watching them play Mindcrime in its entirety on the Empire tour was prob the best show I have ever seem. I have seen them twice since and it paled in comparison. Q2K and beyond is just not good material IMO. They have become a joke with this cabaret crap and it saddens me to say that.

Having said that, QR was one hell of a band and will always be remembered by me for the band they were and not for the band they have become.

I completely agree with everything you just said, with the exception of not being late to the party. I'm only 26, so I have only been into QR now for about 12 years, but I still consider the EP to be the best EP a metal band has ever put out, Rage For Order and Operation Mindcrime are two of the greatest albums ever, period. So yea, it saddens me to see them where they are now as well, but no matter how saddening it might be, it doesn't make it any less the truth.
 
I'm probably dumb but before this thread, I honest to god didn't know that there were people who actually like Queensryche's recent material. Learn something new everyday, I guess.
 
I just thougt of a good fit for the new IE singer - but it will never happen - how about Damond Jiniya?? I saw this guy live numerous times with Savatage. He could sing the Zak stuff, the ballads and also the Jon stuff. When he sang, HOTMK and said, "my friends...", and got in that spider-like position, it was downright eerie!!!!

My $0.02,
Chris :rock:
 
That's a pretty good idea....not sure what Damond is up to nowadays, though.

I remember a lot of grumbling from longtime fans before the 'Tage show here (with FW opening) when they played underneath the Tabernacle at the Cotton Club. A few songs into 'Tage's set and there was no more grumbling -- Damond was superb as a frontman.
Despite being the Really New Guy, he was SO into the show, even singing (or mouthing) the words for parts that he WASN'T singing, that everyone I spoke to was won over.
Really nice guy, too; talked to him after the show.
 
B works for them because it's like watching a Charley Sheen interview, it's terrible to watch, but don't want to look away because you might miss something that you will regret having seen (like Corsair's avatar).

This might be spam, but I'm posting just because of this. Geoff "taint".


What in God's name are you guys arguing about anyway? Is there a cliffsnotes version?
 
Oh yea, and TDD, if you are wanting to compare album sales, American Soldier did about 15k in the first week of release. Meshuggah ObZen did just shy of 12k in the first week. Queensryche has been touring the states for 25+ years. Meshuggah has toured the US very few times. I'm not arguing for, or against Djent, as I am not a huge fan of the genre but can appreciate like hell the talent and work put into the bands playing it (for the most part). That's not something I can appreciate anymore with QR. That said, ANYTHING from Meshuggah's catalog > ANYTHING Queensryche has put out in the last 15 years.
 
I can't believe anyone on this forum would start using record sales as a way to measure the quality of music!! Good Lord, we listen to music that likely collectively sells less copies than Lady Gaga, Kanye West, or other pop artist. So when you compare QR to artist that real move records, they are barely a blip on the radar.

As far as QR goes, I am/was a huge fan, but their more recent releases have been horrible. Maybe they would be OK if it wasn't labeled Queensryche, but their latest material is a sad shadow of their former selves. And I don't think there is anything remotely redeemable about Q2K. Oh well...
 
I can't believe anyone on this forum would start using record sales as a way to measure the quality of music!! Good Lord, we listen to music that likely collectively sells less copies than Lady Gaga, Kanye West, or other pop artist. So when you compare QR to artist that real move records, they are barely a blip on the radar.

As far as QR goes, I am/was a huge fan, but their more recent releases have been horrible. Maybe they would be OK if it wasn't labeled Queensryche, but their latest material is a sad shadow of their former selves. And I don't think there is anything remotely redeemable about Q2K. Oh well...

I normally WOULDN'T use record sales in an argument here, for the exact reasons you stated, the only reason I did was because on the first page of this thread, he compared American Soldier's 15k to The Glorious Collision's 1k. Just throwing his own backwards ass logic back at him.
 
I normally WOULDN'T use record sales in an argument here, for the exact reasons you stated, the only reason I did was because on the first page of this thread, he compared American Soldier's 15k to The Glorious Collision's 1k. Just throwing his own backwards ass logic back at him.

No Brent, I understood your answer. What was funny is that you flipped it around by taking a band that has not scene the same type of mainstream success as QR, yet came damn close to matching their sales. But no, I was referring to the original statement that AS sold way more copies than the newest Evergrey and that makes it better?!?!?!

So most of the guys in Symphony X still have day jobs. I think that would make it obvious that they must not be raking it in (at least enough to not "work"). I guess since they have sold so few copies compared to big dogs of the industry than they clearly suck too? :lol:
 
No Brent, I understood your answer. What was funny is that you flipped it around by taking a band that has not scene the same type of mainstream success as QR, yet came damn close to matching their sales. But no, I was referring to the original statement that AS sold way more copies than the newest Evergrey and that makes it better?!?!?!

So most of the guys in Symphony X still have day jobs. I think that would make it obvious that they must not be raking it in (at least enough to not "work"). I guess since they have sold so few copies compared to big dogs of the industry than they clearly suck too? :lol:

Oh yea dude, Symphony X SUCKS, they can't sell as many records as Queensryche, so they must be TERRIBLE! :rolleyes: